4 ms·

America's Big 3 automakers have been lazy and complacent for years. They haven't made substantial increases in fuel efficiency in decades, and preferred to sue

America's Big 3 automakers have been lazy and complacent for years. They haven't made substantial increases in fuel efficiency in decades, and preferred to sue California to fight the zero-emission vehicle law rather than sell more electric cars. They take tons of handouts from the government (hydrogen research, hybrid research, bailout money, etc.) yet lose millions per day. Bottom line: they don't deserve to be in business. Even if Tata's Nano is $5k, I would buy one.

jwilliams 18y ago
Your two statements seem at odds - You want less pollution, but you're happy for hordes of people to buy a new, polluting car - especially one which doesn't have the same emission standards. e.g. It's catalytic converter isn't nearly as efficient as western cars. Maybe we should be getting out of cars altogether and invest in the public transport system.
- jrockway 18y ago
  Maybe we should be getting out of cars altogether and invest in the public transport system. Agreed. We need to start treating cars like other harmful habits, like smoking and gambling, and tax the hell out of them. We also need to eliminate fares on our public transportation systems. (Nobody's going to take the bus a few blocks to the store when it costs $2.25. But I bet they'll take it when they can just get on for free.) Anyway, I bet that this will not happen in my lifetime.
  - electromagnetic 18y ago
    Actually here in Ontario I've seen plenty of people take the bus for $2.75, but then minimum wage is being increased this year to near $10 an hour and that includes tip-paying and commissioned jobs. There's also considerable discounts. When you pay to get on the bus you get a transfer, which stays valid for a minimum of 90 minutes. Also the bus passes are considerably well priced if you use the bus more than 10 times in a week. So if you're using it to get to and from work and then also to do all your grocery shopping and such, it can get down to as little as $0.50 a trip. Supposedly they're also including tax credits for using it, although they don't seem to want to publish the info on how.
  - stcredzero 18y ago
    There's a "downtown zone" in Minneapolis, where bus travel just costs $0.50. People will definitely take the bus a few blocks to shop at Target for $0.50 each way. I do it and I observe lots of others doing it. (The markup in the local corner stores definitely makes it worth it!)
    - jwilliams 18y ago
      This sounds cool - but I'd ask - if it's so cheap, why not just make it free? Would cut the cost of ticketing, speed things up, etc, etc.
      - stcredzero 18y ago
        As far as I know, there's no tickets for the $0.50 downtown zone. Just drop two quarters in. There may be a way for the wireless fare card (Go To card) to pay that, but I don't know. I just get a roll of quarters from the bank when I need it, and I walk to/from work half the time.
  - jacoblyles 18y ago
    I like the autonomy of being able to travel where I want, when I want, as long as I am willing to pay the fuel and maintenance costs necessary to get there. I don't trust the benevolence of the central planners to design a system that includes everywhere I want to go, especially since many central planners have shown horrible sense in designing transportation systems.
electromagnetic 18y ago
Actually I was surprised when I found out that Ford has actually made incredible increases in fuel efficiency, but they did it all before people started caring about fuel efficiency and they've never shook off the reputation of being a gas guzzler. Let me put it this way, if Ford used the same amount of fuel (compared to other vehicle makers' vehicles) as 20 years ago then I don't think they would have lasted through the insane gas prices last summer.
coglethorpe 18y ago
> America's Big 3 automakers have been lazy and complacent for years. That might be decades instead of years. I am driving a 2000 Buick Centry (on loan while my current car is in the shop) and it's like stepping into a time machine. The feel, controls, interior and style is almost identical to the 1978 Buick Lasabre I learned to drive as a teen. I'm interested to drive a newer Buick to see if they changed anything for the 2009 model.

jwilliams 18y ago

Your two statements seem at odds - You want less pollution, but you're happy for hordes of people to buy a new, polluting car - especially one which doesn't have the same emission standards. e.g. It's catalytic converter isn't nearly as efficient as western cars. Maybe we should be getting out of cars altogether and invest in the public transport system.

jrockway 18y ago
Maybe we should be getting out of cars altogether and invest in the public transport system. Agreed. We need to start treating cars like other harmful habits, like smoking and gambling, and tax the hell out of them. We also need to eliminate fares on our public transportation systems. (Nobody's going to take the bus a few blocks to the store when it costs $2.25. But I bet they'll take it when they can just get on for free.) Anyway, I bet that this will not happen in my lifetime.
- electromagnetic 18y ago
  Actually here in Ontario I've seen plenty of people take the bus for $2.75, but then minimum wage is being increased this year to near $10 an hour and that includes tip-paying and commissioned jobs. There's also considerable discounts. When you pay to get on the bus you get a transfer, which stays valid for a minimum of 90 minutes. Also the bus passes are considerably well priced if you use the bus more than 10 times in a week. So if you're using it to get to and from work and then also to do all your grocery shopping and such, it can get down to as little as $0.50 a trip. Supposedly they're also including tax credits for using it, although they don't seem to want to publish the info on how.
- stcredzero 18y ago
  There's a "downtown zone" in Minneapolis, where bus travel just costs $0.50. People will definitely take the bus a few blocks to shop at Target for $0.50 each way. I do it and I observe lots of others doing it. (The markup in the local corner stores definitely makes it worth it!)
  - jwilliams 18y ago
    This sounds cool - but I'd ask - if it's so cheap, why not just make it free? Would cut the cost of ticketing, speed things up, etc, etc.
    - stcredzero 18y ago
      As far as I know, there's no tickets for the $0.50 downtown zone. Just drop two quarters in. There may be a way for the wireless fare card (Go To card) to pay that, but I don't know. I just get a roll of quarters from the bank when I need it, and I walk to/from work half the time.
- jacoblyles 18y ago
  I like the autonomy of being able to travel where I want, when I want, as long as I am willing to pay the fuel and maintenance costs necessary to get there. I don't trust the benevolence of the central planners to design a system that includes everywhere I want to go, especially since many central planners have shown horrible sense in designing transportation systems.

electromagnetic 18y ago

Actually I was surprised when I found out that Ford has actually made incredible increases in fuel efficiency, but they did it all before people started caring about fuel efficiency and they've never shook off the reputation of being a gas guzzler. Let me put it this way, if Ford used the same amount of fuel (compared to other vehicle makers' vehicles) as 20 years ago then I don't think they would have lasted through the insane gas prices last summer.

coglethorpe 18y ago

> America's Big 3 automakers have been lazy and complacent for years. That might be decades instead of years. I am driving a 2000 Buick Centry (on loan while my current car is in the shop) and it's like stepping into a time machine. The feel, controls, interior and style is almost identical to the 1978 Buick Lasabre I learned to drive as a teen. I'm interested to drive a newer Buick to see if they changed anything for the 2009 model.