2 ms·

Is it legit to learn machine language with the 6502 (Commodore64)

2 points by geeksonhugs 14y ago

I'm a long time computer programmer but have never learned assembler but I have always meant to.<p>I came across "Should Programmers Learn Machine Language": http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=807117 and I agree it's time.<p>As an Android (Java) programmer these days it won't be directly relevant (it is possible to include ARM assembly with the Android NDK) but will be for general knowledge so this opens up the question of WHAT machine language. I've recently also developed a passion for computer history going back to the first electronic computers (and it's precursors).<p>My first computer was a Commodore 64 and I've played with emulators of such from time to time. So I was thinking what if I learned 6502 Assembler? Is that worthwhile or a waste of time? Or maybe not a waste but would I generally be better served by learning ARM or x86?<p>Thanks for any insight.

georgemcbay 14y ago
Learning 6502 (the C64 is actually a 6510, but basically the same thing) asm will be absolutely worthwhile, not in the sense that it is a directly usable skill but in the sense that it will give you a greater understanding of the lower levels of computer operation which will help in all sorts of subtle and not-so-subtle ways when you are doing virtually any type of programming. As far as ARM or x86 being more useful, I'd stay away from learning x86 (particularly modern x86) as your first assembler because it has evolved to be more of a compiler target language than a human-understandable assembler. ARM isn't as bad on this front (though it is ramping up in complexity lately). 6502, 68000 or MIPS would be my recommendations for a first-timer though.
- geeksonhugs 14y ago
  Nice! Thanks. I had heard the argument made that ARM is ideal because it is a RISC processor so less to learn. Regardless as it likely won't be directly usable if the general concepts are as readily, if not better, learned with the 65XX then that's perfect. Thank you! BTW, just discovered this community. Pretty cool so far.
ibrow 14y ago
Not to take this thread off topic but I've also been getting into the fascinating history of computers. I've almost finished the book Code by Charles Petzold and it was like a lightbulb going off in my head. So interesting and so exciting. I'm now itching to dive into assembler so based on georgemcbay's comment I'll give 6502 a go. On a side note, @geeksonhugs, do you know of any other good books or documentaries exploring the history further? Thanks in advance

2 points by geeksonhugs 14y ago

georgemcbay 14y ago

Learning 6502 (the C64 is actually a 6510, but basically the same thing) asm will be absolutely worthwhile, not in the sense that it is a directly usable skill but in the sense that it will give you a greater understanding of the lower levels of computer operation which will help in all sorts of subtle and not-so-subtle ways when you are doing virtually any type of programming. As far as ARM or x86 being more useful, I'd stay away from learning x86 (particularly modern x86) as your first assembler because it has evolved to be more of a compiler target language than a human-understandable assembler. ARM isn't as bad on this front (though it is ramping up in complexity lately). 6502, 68000 or MIPS would be my recommendations for a first-timer though.

geeksonhugs 14y ago
Nice! Thanks. I had heard the argument made that ARM is ideal because it is a RISC processor so less to learn. Regardless as it likely won't be directly usable if the general concepts are as readily, if not better, learned with the 65XX then that's perfect. Thank you! BTW, just discovered this community. Pretty cool so far.

ibrow 14y ago

Not to take this thread off topic but I've also been getting into the fascinating history of computers. I've almost finished the book Code by Charles Petzold and it was like a lightbulb going off in my head. So interesting and so exciting. I'm now itching to dive into assembler so based on georgemcbay's comment I'll give 6502 a go. On a side note, @geeksonhugs, do you know of any other good books or documentaries exploring the history further? Thanks in advance