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Not at all. I borrowed a silly amount of money so that when I was learning compilers, I could drop into Alfred Aho's office and ask a question. That's not hand-

Not at all. I borrowed a silly amount of money so that when I was learning compilers, I could drop into Alfred Aho's office and ask a question. That's not hand-holding, it's a resource for people who learn better interactively vs just reading a book or watching a video. Does it really say something negative about students if they consult with a TA about something they don't yet understand? There is nothing shameful or wrong about admitting a lack of understanding and seeking an interactive discussion to be able to grasp it. If anything it's one of the more professionally applicable skills college can teach. I'd rather hire someone who experientially understood the value of in-person communication and patient explanation than someone pompous who thinks that people who can't get it on their own the first time are a lost cause. Attending office hours is a great use of your time at a college, and showing up requires self-discipline and motivation.

liber8 14y ago
Suppose you were to draw a Venn diagram of the subset of students who fail to even attend online classes and the subset of students who regularly attend office hours so that they can more deeply understand a concept. How big do you suppose the overlap would be? I'm not arguing the point you're making. Nobody is. (Although many would argue that spending silly amounts of money is not a prerequisite to gaining access to esteemed faculty.)
- antiterra 14y ago
  The argument is that it requires more motivation for online students to be successful than those in person. That argument could be wrong, but it does not require students to be total non-attending slackers to be correct. Since you say you're arguing a different point: What exactly were you characterizing as hand-holding?
DataWorker 14y ago
You can ask question of the instructor in a MOOC setting and it's actually much more efficient. If several students have the same question, which is likely, then rather than having multiple individuals show up separately at office hours, a single post in a forum will answer that question for everyone, even those who didn't think to ask. This is a huge benefit to struggling students. In general, MOOCs level the playing field in terms of socio-economic barriers to higher education. I believe this is the primary reason for their criticism. They erode the function of higher education in separating the haves from have-nots.
- antiterra 14y ago
  A post in a forum is nowhere near the same thing as an actual interaction. Maybe something like webchat office hours would come close, but there are going to be people who are much more receptive to in-person learning.
  - DataWorker 14y ago
    Given the extensive body of literature in education research perhaps you can provide a citation?
- jacalata 14y ago
  In the last MOOC I took, I didn't see answers on the forums. I saw the same questions asked over and over, people asking for sample solutions to the assignments once the due date was passed, people asking for answers to the quizzes once the due date was passed, and nothing. If MOOC's are going to be so great then the people running them need to put in a little effort. (Am I the only one who sees 'MOOC' and pronounces it /moose/ in my head?)

liber8 14y ago

Suppose you were to draw a Venn diagram of the subset of students who fail to even attend online classes and the subset of students who regularly attend office hours so that they can more deeply understand a concept. How big do you suppose the overlap would be? I'm not arguing the point you're making. Nobody is. (Although many would argue that spending silly amounts of money is not a prerequisite to gaining access to esteemed faculty.)

antiterra 14y ago
The argument is that it requires more motivation for online students to be successful than those in person. That argument could be wrong, but it does not require students to be total non-attending slackers to be correct. Since you say you're arguing a different point: What exactly were you characterizing as hand-holding?

DataWorker 14y ago

You can ask question of the instructor in a MOOC setting and it's actually much more efficient. If several students have the same question, which is likely, then rather than having multiple individuals show up separately at office hours, a single post in a forum will answer that question for everyone, even those who didn't think to ask. This is a huge benefit to struggling students. In general, MOOCs level the playing field in terms of socio-economic barriers to higher education. I believe this is the primary reason for their criticism. They erode the function of higher education in separating the haves from have-nots.

antiterra 14y ago
A post in a forum is nowhere near the same thing as an actual interaction. Maybe something like webchat office hours would come close, but there are going to be people who are much more receptive to in-person learning.
- DataWorker 14y ago
  Given the extensive body of literature in education research perhaps you can provide a citation?
jacalata 14y ago
In the last MOOC I took, I didn't see answers on the forums. I saw the same questions asked over and over, people asking for sample solutions to the assignments once the due date was passed, people asking for answers to the quizzes once the due date was passed, and nothing. If MOOC's are going to be so great then the people running them need to put in a little effort. (Am I the only one who sees 'MOOC' and pronounces it /moose/ in my head?)