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And you think that Ubuntu on mobile devices is going to do any better? Nokia screwed up, but diverting resources to an even more miniscule market is even crazi

And you think that Ubuntu on mobile devices is going to do any better? Nokia screwed up, but diverting resources to an even more miniscule market is even crazier.

azakai 14y ago
It is not miniscule, it is 0% right now ;) But again, the question is of putting all the eggs in one basket or not. Ubuntu and other non-windows mobile OSes each have different approaches, hard to say which will succeed. It's foolish to bet on just one if you are as big as Nokia.
- MatthewPhillips 14y ago
  What I don't understand is why these late-comers continue to try and build their own self-contained ecosystem of apps. Microsoft with all its money still barely has a decent ecosystem and even that has a lot of holes. There's 0 chance that any other is going to be given the time of day. Blackberry hinging on Gingerbread apps is just silly. Instead they should be betting on the web, completely. Ubuntu, being a traditional Linux distro, has a big library of desktop apps that can be cross-compiled in Emscripten, but instead they split their much smaller resources between several different options.
  - marssaxman 14y ago
    Web apps just aren't as nice as real apps, and all the existing platforms already support them too. If there's nothing your new platform can do that the existing ones can't, and your message is "just deal with the 80% solution that is the web app world", why would anyone use your new system?
    - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
      Apps that exist are better than apps that don't exist. Ask WebOS users, the few that still are out there. The only way to make web apps as nice is to put the engineering effort into making them as nice (something only Mozilla is seriously doing at this time). Another proprietary mobile ecosystem isn't going to be adopted.
      - marssaxman 14y ago
        I don't understand your argument. A new platform has to offer something the existing platforms don't have. Web apps cannot be the differentiator for a new phone OS because the big two already have standards-compliant web browsers. The browser is table stakes; of course any new phone OS must offer one, because you can't be taken seriously without it, but the browser in itself is not a reason to use the platform. Or are you suggesting that new phone OSes ought to add proprietary non-standard browser extensions in place of a native apps API? Given the ugly history of proprietary browser features it is difficult to imagine anyone taking such a strategy seriously.
  - adamsaleh 14y ago
    Well why cross-compile to Emscripten, when you can cross-compile directly for arm,e.t.c (thus leveraging diractly unix/desktop heritage)
  - tuneit 14y ago
    actually there have been talk about one common api for all .nix that is tizen, sailfish, meego, ubuntu, plasma
- simonh 14y ago
  That's true up to a point, but even Nokia has limited resources and developing, launching and marketing a tablet computer at Nokia's scale is not cheap. So given that, if they were going to put some eggs in another basket, why would they choose Ubuntu over Android, which has an existing application base and at least some user awareness? It seems like we're at the same stage right now in the mobile OS world as we were in the personal computer market back in the 80s, with multiple competing platforms such as the Amiga, Atari ST, BBC Micro, Commodore 64, PC, Mac, etc. Each had it's advantages, and each had significant success, but there's actually only room in the market for two or three of them long term.
  - azakai 14y ago
    > So given that, if they were going to put some eggs in another basket, why would they choose Ubuntu over Android, which has an existing application base and at least some user awareness? I agree, Android would be a better second bet. But they don't necessarily need to limit themselves to 2 - look at how many options Samsung is keeping open for example.
    - jussij 14y ago
      Except Samsung is drowning in profits, while Nokia is just drowning.

And you think that Ubuntu on mobile devices is going to do any better? Nokia screwed up, but diverting resources to an even more miniscule market is even crazier.

azakai 14y ago

It is not miniscule, it is 0% right now ;) But again, the question is of putting all the eggs in one basket or not. Ubuntu and other non-windows mobile OSes each have different approaches, hard to say which will succeed. It's foolish to bet on just one if you are as big as Nokia.

MatthewPhillips 14y ago
What I don't understand is why these late-comers continue to try and build their own self-contained ecosystem of apps. Microsoft with all its money still barely has a decent ecosystem and even that has a lot of holes. There's 0 chance that any other is going to be given the time of day. Blackberry hinging on Gingerbread apps is just silly. Instead they should be betting on the web, completely. Ubuntu, being a traditional Linux distro, has a big library of desktop apps that can be cross-compiled in Emscripten, but instead they split their much smaller resources between several different options.
- marssaxman 14y ago
  Web apps just aren't as nice as real apps, and all the existing platforms already support them too. If there's nothing your new platform can do that the existing ones can't, and your message is "just deal with the 80% solution that is the web app world", why would anyone use your new system?
  - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
    Apps that exist are better than apps that don't exist. Ask WebOS users, the few that still are out there. The only way to make web apps as nice is to put the engineering effort into making them as nice (something only Mozilla is seriously doing at this time). Another proprietary mobile ecosystem isn't going to be adopted.
    - marssaxman 14y ago
      I don't understand your argument. A new platform has to offer something the existing platforms don't have. Web apps cannot be the differentiator for a new phone OS because the big two already have standards-compliant web browsers. The browser is table stakes; of course any new phone OS must offer one, because you can't be taken seriously without it, but the browser in itself is not a reason to use the platform. Or are you suggesting that new phone OSes ought to add proprietary non-standard browser extensions in place of a native apps API? Given the ugly history of proprietary browser features it is difficult to imagine anyone taking such a strategy seriously.
- adamsaleh 14y ago
  Well why cross-compile to Emscripten, when you can cross-compile directly for arm,e.t.c (thus leveraging diractly unix/desktop heritage)
- tuneit 14y ago
  actually there have been talk about one common api for all .nix that is tizen, sailfish, meego, ubuntu, plasma
simonh 14y ago
That's true up to a point, but even Nokia has limited resources and developing, launching and marketing a tablet computer at Nokia's scale is not cheap. So given that, if they were going to put some eggs in another basket, why would they choose Ubuntu over Android, which has an existing application base and at least some user awareness? It seems like we're at the same stage right now in the mobile OS world as we were in the personal computer market back in the 80s, with multiple competing platforms such as the Amiga, Atari ST, BBC Micro, Commodore 64, PC, Mac, etc. Each had it's advantages, and each had significant success, but there's actually only room in the market for two or three of them long term.
- azakai 14y ago
  > So given that, if they were going to put some eggs in another basket, why would they choose Ubuntu over Android, which has an existing application base and at least some user awareness? I agree, Android would be a better second bet. But they don't necessarily need to limit themselves to 2 - look at how many options Samsung is keeping open for example.
  - jussij 14y ago
    Except Samsung is drowning in profits, while Nokia is just drowning.