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This is the real conversation we need to be having; why are companies having to go toe-to-toe with nations, without the backing or support of their own governme

This is the real conversation we need to be having; why are companies having to go toe-to-toe with nations, without the backing or support of their own government?

ComputerGuru 14y ago
The unfortunate answer is quite simple: because we don't trust our own government. And with (some) good reason.
betterunix 14y ago
What makes you think companies are not receiving help from the government? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Controversy
GHFigs 14y ago
One reason that conversation has been hard to have to date is that a bill like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Cyberspace_as_a_National_Asset_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Cyberspace_as_a_Nati..., gets reported in the press like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_kill_switch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_kill_switch
- snowwrestler 14y ago
  Exactly. And CISPA gets marketed as "SOPA warmed over" by activists eager to build their email lists.
snowwrestler 14y ago
U.S. companies do receive significant support from their government, typically in the form of FBI support for the investigation and mitigation of intrusions. The really sophisticated stuff is on the military side, which is a black box. But who is to say that the NSA or DOD is not actively engaged in trying to analyze or degrade the capabilities of Chinese APTs? It's possible someone in the NSA is reading the Mandiant report right now thinking "not bad, they got almost half of what we know." The recent Obama executive order should help get more of such info into the hands of companies.
- greedo 14y ago
  From what I've heard, the US govt has basically decided that the best defense is a good offense. You don't hear of any of their successes because a) the US doesn't want to let it out, and b) the Chinese aren't especially fond of losing face.
rayiner 14y ago
Because contemporary net/tech culture believes in an extremist version of "those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither" philosophy. Inside the tech community, reasonable proposals are shouted down as the first step on the slippery slope to big brother. Outside the tech community, nobody really cares because they don't intuitively understand the need for network security in the way they might understand the need for border or airport security.
joequant 14y ago
Which government? If you are a software company and you let it be known that you actively cooperate with the NSA and CIA, I doubt you'll be doing much business in China. I doubt France is going to let you in, either. Outside of a few industries, the business losses from actively cooperating with a national government are going to be much larger than any losses due to hacking.
jstalin 14y ago
This assumes that the government is better at it than private industry.

This is the real conversation we need to be having; why are companies having to go toe-to-toe with nations, without the backing or support of their own government?

ComputerGuru 14y ago

The unfortunate answer is quite simple: because we don't trust our own government. And with (some) good reason.

betterunix 14y ago

What makes you think companies are not receiving help from the government? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON#Controversy

GHFigs 14y ago

One reason that conversation has been hard to have to date is that a bill like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Cyberspace_as_a_National_Asset_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Cyberspace_as_a_Nati..., gets reported in the press like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_kill_switch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_kill_switch

snowwrestler 14y ago
Exactly. And CISPA gets marketed as "SOPA warmed over" by activists eager to build their email lists.

snowwrestler 14y ago

U.S. companies do receive significant support from their government, typically in the form of FBI support for the investigation and mitigation of intrusions. The really sophisticated stuff is on the military side, which is a black box. But who is to say that the NSA or DOD is not actively engaged in trying to analyze or degrade the capabilities of Chinese APTs? It's possible someone in the NSA is reading the Mandiant report right now thinking "not bad, they got almost half of what we know." The recent Obama executive order should help get more of such info into the hands of companies.

greedo 14y ago
From what I've heard, the US govt has basically decided that the best defense is a good offense. You don't hear of any of their successes because a) the US doesn't want to let it out, and b) the Chinese aren't especially fond of losing face.

rayiner 14y ago

Because contemporary net/tech culture believes in an extremist version of "those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither" philosophy. Inside the tech community, reasonable proposals are shouted down as the first step on the slippery slope to big brother. Outside the tech community, nobody really cares because they don't intuitively understand the need for network security in the way they might understand the need for border or airport security.

joequant 14y ago

Which government? If you are a software company and you let it be known that you actively cooperate with the NSA and CIA, I doubt you'll be doing much business in China. I doubt France is going to let you in, either. Outside of a few industries, the business losses from actively cooperating with a national government are going to be much larger than any losses due to hacking.

jstalin 14y ago

This assumes that the government is better at it than private industry.