4 ms·

> "There is no way any codebase will turn out to be harder to fix than changing the spark plugs on a 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo. No way." Famous last words

OldSchool 14y ago
I have to agree, the spark plug task is pretty deterministic in that a shop manual will specify the number of hours to charge, which a well-practiced mechanic can easily beat and often pocket his share of the difference.
- orangethirty 14y ago
  Question, and I'm not being pedantic: Have you ever changed the spark plugs on a 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo?
  - OldSchool 14y ago
    I have not done so myself, but I always imagined that it would require dropping out the engine. As such I'd call it a tedious but well-defined task for someone with a lift and plenty of time. If the job can actually be done without removing the engine, yes that sounds incredibly frustrating. The 993 series in general is still a fantastic car today but the turbo model in particular looked absolutely stunning when it was introduced. They gave up a lot of character when they re-tooled in 1999.
    - orangethirty 14y ago
      I agree. The 996 was just too bland, but still sold much more units than the 993. Go figure. OT: I once tried to talk a client into dropping a 3.6 993 engine into a 996 Carrera. Everything lines up, but he was afraid of the resale value of the car. Would have been a fun experiment. :)
jeffbarr 14y ago
Does it involve dropping the engine? I can barely see the plugs on my non-turbo 911SC. I imagine that the plugs for a turbo are buried under some gnarly manifolds.
- orangethirty 14y ago
  There are two ways to do it: You can remove the manifolds (and turbochargers and all related shit), or you can lower the engine a bit and get your hand in there with a collection of flexible 3/8 ratchet joints, a shaved spark plug socket (if its too long it wont work), and lots of patience. The issue is that the upper head faces the frame rails. By the way, I love the SC. Very nice car. I dropped a 930 engine into one, but it keeps breaking transmissions (600+ HP). :)
  - newman314 14y ago
    http://p-car.com/diy/sparkplug/ http://p-car.com/diy/sparkplug/ I've done the change =)
  - nvmc 14y ago
    Reminds me of a friend who took the hole saw to the inner guards on his STi to make getting to the plugs easier.
    - orangethirty 14y ago
      Oh yeah, I own a Subaru. I know the pain of changing those spark plugs, too.
awj 14y ago
Unless you've got a lot of experience changing spark plugs on a 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo, I think that statement applies to both you and the GP. It's reassuring to think our problems are harder than those of other professions, but it's not always true.
- orangethirty 14y ago
  Oh, I get his point, and somewhat agree. But I think fixing cars is harder than software. Personal opinion of course.
  - scott_s 14y ago
    That may be because software is your profession, and you spend more time doing it.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  If it were between fixing an unknown issue with said car and fixing some code, then I would say it might be a wash. Fixing that particular issue with the car though? Regardless of the difficulty in fixing it, at least you've got a book that tells you what to do (I assume. I would be very surprised if that wasn't the case. From the sound of it, it looks like he knows what needs to be done). Diagnosis and design of a fix will almost always be more challenging them implementing a fix, be it with cars or code.
  - orangethirty 14y ago
    In auto repair, what the books tell you != apply to real life. Never does. I think its a joke played on by the auto manufacturers.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      I'm still going with merely knowing that your job is to replace the sparkplugs gives you a leg up. You seem to have a pretty firm grasp on how complicated the task is and what is involved, which is already a head start.
newman314 14y ago
I've done both and while it's a bit of an exaggeration, changing those spark plugs were a giant pain in the ass. I still have the scars. My new benchmark for self-inflicted pain is trying to get IPSec up and running from an iPad to the house going through dd-wrt terminating in a Linux VM. Still pounding my head on that one.

OldSchool 14y ago

I have to agree, the spark plug task is pretty deterministic in that a shop manual will specify the number of hours to charge, which a well-practiced mechanic can easily beat and often pocket his share of the difference.

orangethirty 14y ago
Question, and I'm not being pedantic: Have you ever changed the spark plugs on a 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo?
- OldSchool 14y ago
  I have not done so myself, but I always imagined that it would require dropping out the engine. As such I'd call it a tedious but well-defined task for someone with a lift and plenty of time. If the job can actually be done without removing the engine, yes that sounds incredibly frustrating. The 993 series in general is still a fantastic car today but the turbo model in particular looked absolutely stunning when it was introduced. They gave up a lot of character when they re-tooled in 1999.
  - orangethirty 14y ago
    I agree. The 996 was just too bland, but still sold much more units than the 993. Go figure. OT: I once tried to talk a client into dropping a 3.6 993 engine into a 996 Carrera. Everything lines up, but he was afraid of the resale value of the car. Would have been a fun experiment. :)

jeffbarr 14y ago

Does it involve dropping the engine? I can barely see the plugs on my non-turbo 911SC. I imagine that the plugs for a turbo are buried under some gnarly manifolds.

orangethirty 14y ago
There are two ways to do it: You can remove the manifolds (and turbochargers and all related shit), or you can lower the engine a bit and get your hand in there with a collection of flexible 3/8 ratchet joints, a shaved spark plug socket (if its too long it wont work), and lots of patience. The issue is that the upper head faces the frame rails. By the way, I love the SC. Very nice car. I dropped a 930 engine into one, but it keeps breaking transmissions (600+ HP). :)
- newman314 14y ago
  http://p-car.com/diy/sparkplug/ http://p-car.com/diy/sparkplug/ I've done the change =)
- nvmc 14y ago
  Reminds me of a friend who took the hole saw to the inner guards on his STi to make getting to the plugs easier.
  - orangethirty 14y ago
    Oh yeah, I own a Subaru. I know the pain of changing those spark plugs, too.

awj 14y ago

Unless you've got a lot of experience changing spark plugs on a 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo, I think that statement applies to both you and the GP. It's reassuring to think our problems are harder than those of other professions, but it's not always true.

orangethirty 14y ago
Oh, I get his point, and somewhat agree. But I think fixing cars is harder than software. Personal opinion of course.
- scott_s 14y ago
  That may be because software is your profession, and you spend more time doing it.
jlgreco 14y ago
If it were between fixing an unknown issue with said car and fixing some code, then I would say it might be a wash. Fixing that particular issue with the car though? Regardless of the difficulty in fixing it, at least you've got a book that tells you what to do (I assume. I would be very surprised if that wasn't the case. From the sound of it, it looks like he knows what needs to be done). Diagnosis and design of a fix will almost always be more challenging them implementing a fix, be it with cars or code.
- orangethirty 14y ago
  In auto repair, what the books tell you != apply to real life. Never does. I think its a joke played on by the auto manufacturers.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    I'm still going with merely knowing that your job is to replace the sparkplugs gives you a leg up. You seem to have a pretty firm grasp on how complicated the task is and what is involved, which is already a head start.

newman314 14y ago

I've done both and while it's a bit of an exaggeration, changing those spark plugs were a giant pain in the ass. I still have the scars. My new benchmark for self-inflicted pain is trying to get IPSec up and running from an iPad to the house going through dd-wrt terminating in a Linux VM. Still pounding my head on that one.