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You're overstating the ease with which you can create a rifle with machine tools. While it can be done, it is both time consuming and very difficult to do in a

You're overstating the ease with which you can create a rifle with machine tools. While it can be done, it is both time consuming and very difficult to do in a home shop, or even a proper shop. If 3D printers could print materials with the appropriate structural characteristics (a huge if), it would be much easier. I have serious doubts about that happening in my lifetime. It's quite a trick to go from printing ABS to printing hardened steel.

kabdib 14y ago
My point isn't that it's a simple job. My point is that it's legal today, and that you /can/ do it. A beginner with a 20 ton press and some other simple tools could probably bend an AK blank and have a rifle in a week or so. I don't know what's involved in making the blank (probably a way to cut sheet steel and a jig for drilling accurate holes). Fiddly bits (springs and such) are available in kits; these are tough to make yourself, but people do. There's a video of gun shops in Pakistan making perfectly servicable rifles under extremely primitive conditions. Of course, the folks doing this have a lot of experience. Sure, printing would make it easier. No, the current 3D printer materials will not work. On the other hand, the AK is designed so that the receiver doesn't need to be uber strong, and we might not be /that/ far from the required material strength for everything except the barrel.
talmand 14y ago
You seem to be assuming that the term rifle always implies something complicated like an AR-15 or AK. The most likely reason someone would go about creating a rifle in their garage due to an oppressive government is because most likely all guns have been banned and confiscated. In that situation, the ability to create a simple bolt-action rifle would be of immense value to anyone fighting the oppressive government. For that matter, a good shotgun that doesn't require rifling is better than nothing. Another option is to make smooth-bore musket types, in the past they were accurate up to 100 yards or so. Considering that in the past rifles were created by hand with simple tools, as compared to today's technology, I don't find it hard to believe that a small group of dedicated people can figure out how to make somewhat quality firearms in their garage with modern tools. This talk of people making something like an AR-15 from a printer anytime soon is just someone that's looking for something political out of it, a scare the populace tactic.
- damoncali 14y ago
  It is harder to make a bolt action rifle than an AR-15. The skill and time involved are substantial in both cases, but creating a heat treated bolt gun receiver that works is no joke. But what is much more interesting to me is the interplay between technology and the law. The lower receiver, the regulated part, will be printable (usefully so) within a decade in my view. That makes it possible for someone with basic skills to own a proper semiautomatic rifle without the government even knowing about it. Would that cause regulation of other parts like barrels? Maybe, but barrels are expendable parts...I'm pretty sure the NRA would blow a gasket over that for more than one reason. Triggers? How? What's a "trigger?" Guns, like information, want to be free. It all puts gun control advocates in a bit of a pickle. In fact, it puts prohibitionists of all kinds in a pickle. And that is a good thing.
  - talmand 14y ago
    Well, I was speaking more in terms of functionality, not materials. I didn't mean to imply that making a bolt action rifle was easy, but I find it hard to believe it is harder to make a bolt action rifle versus a semi-automatic AR-15. I'm not a gunsmith, so I could be wrong but the difference in complexity between the two seems to suggest this. I would have to assume that making a single action revolver would be easier than a semi-automatic handgun. Discussions of quality of the resulting weapon is a different matter though. If we had printers capable of making a functional gun, then the government can try to regulate individual parts all they wanted. It would make no difference. It's only a matter of time before there's a simple way of making a high quality rifled barrel of your choice of caliber. They would have to look into controlling the materials required; metals, gunpowder, and so on. Even then that's a losing endeavor, simply because how can you tell the intentions of the person buying the materials? You can't. This goes beyond weapons, the ability to create nearly anything you want in your home with no one knowing opens up a huge can of worms that I feel that most people simply cannot comprehend.
    - damoncali 14y ago
      The difference is in the complexity of the parts. A bolt gun receiver is much more complex to build than any part on an AR-15, which is the closest thing out there to a gun you can just bolt together. But yeah, this genie is not going back in the bottle.

kabdib 14y ago

My point isn't that it's a simple job. My point is that it's legal today, and that you /can/ do it. A beginner with a 20 ton press and some other simple tools could probably bend an AK blank and have a rifle in a week or so. I don't know what's involved in making the blank (probably a way to cut sheet steel and a jig for drilling accurate holes). Fiddly bits (springs and such) are available in kits; these are tough to make yourself, but people do. There's a video of gun shops in Pakistan making perfectly servicable rifles under extremely primitive conditions. Of course, the folks doing this have a lot of experience. Sure, printing would make it easier. No, the current 3D printer materials will not work. On the other hand, the AK is designed so that the receiver doesn't need to be uber strong, and we might not be /that/ far from the required material strength for everything except the barrel.

talmand 14y ago

You seem to be assuming that the term rifle always implies something complicated like an AR-15 or AK. The most likely reason someone would go about creating a rifle in their garage due to an oppressive government is because most likely all guns have been banned and confiscated. In that situation, the ability to create a simple bolt-action rifle would be of immense value to anyone fighting the oppressive government. For that matter, a good shotgun that doesn't require rifling is better than nothing. Another option is to make smooth-bore musket types, in the past they were accurate up to 100 yards or so. Considering that in the past rifles were created by hand with simple tools, as compared to today's technology, I don't find it hard to believe that a small group of dedicated people can figure out how to make somewhat quality firearms in their garage with modern tools. This talk of people making something like an AR-15 from a printer anytime soon is just someone that's looking for something political out of it, a scare the populace tactic.

damoncali 14y ago
It is harder to make a bolt action rifle than an AR-15. The skill and time involved are substantial in both cases, but creating a heat treated bolt gun receiver that works is no joke. But what is much more interesting to me is the interplay between technology and the law. The lower receiver, the regulated part, will be printable (usefully so) within a decade in my view. That makes it possible for someone with basic skills to own a proper semiautomatic rifle without the government even knowing about it. Would that cause regulation of other parts like barrels? Maybe, but barrels are expendable parts...I'm pretty sure the NRA would blow a gasket over that for more than one reason. Triggers? How? What's a "trigger?" Guns, like information, want to be free. It all puts gun control advocates in a bit of a pickle. In fact, it puts prohibitionists of all kinds in a pickle. And that is a good thing.
- talmand 14y ago
  Well, I was speaking more in terms of functionality, not materials. I didn't mean to imply that making a bolt action rifle was easy, but I find it hard to believe it is harder to make a bolt action rifle versus a semi-automatic AR-15. I'm not a gunsmith, so I could be wrong but the difference in complexity between the two seems to suggest this. I would have to assume that making a single action revolver would be easier than a semi-automatic handgun. Discussions of quality of the resulting weapon is a different matter though. If we had printers capable of making a functional gun, then the government can try to regulate individual parts all they wanted. It would make no difference. It's only a matter of time before there's a simple way of making a high quality rifled barrel of your choice of caliber. They would have to look into controlling the materials required; metals, gunpowder, and so on. Even then that's a losing endeavor, simply because how can you tell the intentions of the person buying the materials? You can't. This goes beyond weapons, the ability to create nearly anything you want in your home with no one knowing opens up a huge can of worms that I feel that most people simply cannot comprehend.
  - damoncali 14y ago
    The difference is in the complexity of the parts. A bolt gun receiver is much more complex to build than any part on an AR-15, which is the closest thing out there to a gun you can just bolt together. But yeah, this genie is not going back in the bottle.