4 ms·

It's relatively easy to manufacture most of an AK-47 using machines that are affordable and that fit in a garage (the exception being rifled barrels, but those

by kabdib 14y ago

It's relatively easy to manufacture most of an AK-47 using machines that are affordable and that fit in a garage (the exception being rifled barrels, but those are relatively easy to find). In the US, it's also perfectly legal, as long as the firearm is not capable of automatic fire. If you have a CNC mill, you can make your own AR-15 (again, you'll probably have to buy a barrel). The "OMG people will print guns" stuff is just hysteria and grandstanding.

kale 14y ago
Even with CNC programming, a person has to have skills to properly mount and orient the work (center if on a CNC lathe, zero the coordinate system if on a mill), machine, and assemble. It takes decent skill to make a firearm with conventional machining. The concern (I'm not saying it's a founded concern) is that 3D printing would allow unskilled folks to download increasingly complex plans and implement them with little skill. The pool of people with good CNC machining skills (and access to at least $10K worth of very heavy equipment) is probably less than the pool of people with $5K spare cash (ballparking what a future 3D printer might cost) and only basic mechanical skills.
- potatolicious 14y ago
  Except, as brought up elsewhere in the thread - the present state of 3D printing (and the state in the foreseeable future) also require substantial personal skill to print a weapon. The prospect of an unskilled individual loading a file in a program, hitting "print", and retrieving a usable gun from the other end, is not at all realistic. I still don't see what distinguishes this from good old gunsmithing laws/issues.
damoncali 14y ago
You're overstating the ease with which you can create a rifle with machine tools. While it can be done, it is both time consuming and very difficult to do in a home shop, or even a proper shop. If 3D printers could print materials with the appropriate structural characteristics (a huge if), it would be much easier. I have serious doubts about that happening in my lifetime. It's quite a trick to go from printing ABS to printing hardened steel.
- kabdib 14y ago
  My point isn't that it's a simple job. My point is that it's legal today, and that you /can/ do it. A beginner with a 20 ton press and some other simple tools could probably bend an AK blank and have a rifle in a week or so. I don't know what's involved in making the blank (probably a way to cut sheet steel and a jig for drilling accurate holes). Fiddly bits (springs and such) are available in kits; these are tough to make yourself, but people do. There's a video of gun shops in Pakistan making perfectly servicable rifles under extremely primitive conditions. Of course, the folks doing this have a lot of experience. Sure, printing would make it easier. No, the current 3D printer materials will not work. On the other hand, the AK is designed so that the receiver doesn't need to be uber strong, and we might not be /that/ far from the required material strength for everything except the barrel.
- talmand 14y ago
  You seem to be assuming that the term rifle always implies something complicated like an AR-15 or AK. The most likely reason someone would go about creating a rifle in their garage due to an oppressive government is because most likely all guns have been banned and confiscated. In that situation, the ability to create a simple bolt-action rifle would be of immense value to anyone fighting the oppressive government. For that matter, a good shotgun that doesn't require rifling is better than nothing. Another option is to make smooth-bore musket types, in the past they were accurate up to 100 yards or so. Considering that in the past rifles were created by hand with simple tools, as compared to today's technology, I don't find it hard to believe that a small group of dedicated people can figure out how to make somewhat quality firearms in their garage with modern tools. This talk of people making something like an AR-15 from a printer anytime soon is just someone that's looking for something political out of it, a scare the populace tactic.
  - damoncali 14y ago
    It is harder to make a bolt action rifle than an AR-15. The skill and time involved are substantial in both cases, but creating a heat treated bolt gun receiver that works is no joke. But what is much more interesting to me is the interplay between technology and the law. The lower receiver, the regulated part, will be printable (usefully so) within a decade in my view. That makes it possible for someone with basic skills to own a proper semiautomatic rifle without the government even knowing about it. Would that cause regulation of other parts like barrels? Maybe, but barrels are expendable parts...I'm pretty sure the NRA would blow a gasket over that for more than one reason. Triggers? How? What's a "trigger?" Guns, like information, want to be free. It all puts gun control advocates in a bit of a pickle. In fact, it puts prohibitionists of all kinds in a pickle. And that is a good thing.

by kabdib 14y ago

kale 14y ago

Even with CNC programming, a person has to have skills to properly mount and orient the work (center if on a CNC lathe, zero the coordinate system if on a mill), machine, and assemble. It takes decent skill to make a firearm with conventional machining. The concern (I'm not saying it's a founded concern) is that 3D printing would allow unskilled folks to download increasingly complex plans and implement them with little skill. The pool of people with good CNC machining skills (and access to at least $10K worth of very heavy equipment) is probably less than the pool of people with $5K spare cash (ballparking what a future 3D printer might cost) and only basic mechanical skills.

potatolicious 14y ago
Except, as brought up elsewhere in the thread - the present state of 3D printing (and the state in the foreseeable future) also require substantial personal skill to print a weapon. The prospect of an unskilled individual loading a file in a program, hitting "print", and retrieving a usable gun from the other end, is not at all realistic. I still don't see what distinguishes this from good old gunsmithing laws/issues.

damoncali 14y ago

You're overstating the ease with which you can create a rifle with machine tools. While it can be done, it is both time consuming and very difficult to do in a home shop, or even a proper shop. If 3D printers could print materials with the appropriate structural characteristics (a huge if), it would be much easier. I have serious doubts about that happening in my lifetime. It's quite a trick to go from printing ABS to printing hardened steel.

kabdib 14y ago
My point isn't that it's a simple job. My point is that it's legal today, and that you /can/ do it. A beginner with a 20 ton press and some other simple tools could probably bend an AK blank and have a rifle in a week or so. I don't know what's involved in making the blank (probably a way to cut sheet steel and a jig for drilling accurate holes). Fiddly bits (springs and such) are available in kits; these are tough to make yourself, but people do. There's a video of gun shops in Pakistan making perfectly servicable rifles under extremely primitive conditions. Of course, the folks doing this have a lot of experience. Sure, printing would make it easier. No, the current 3D printer materials will not work. On the other hand, the AK is designed so that the receiver doesn't need to be uber strong, and we might not be /that/ far from the required material strength for everything except the barrel.
talmand 14y ago
You seem to be assuming that the term rifle always implies something complicated like an AR-15 or AK. The most likely reason someone would go about creating a rifle in their garage due to an oppressive government is because most likely all guns have been banned and confiscated. In that situation, the ability to create a simple bolt-action rifle would be of immense value to anyone fighting the oppressive government. For that matter, a good shotgun that doesn't require rifling is better than nothing. Another option is to make smooth-bore musket types, in the past they were accurate up to 100 yards or so. Considering that in the past rifles were created by hand with simple tools, as compared to today's technology, I don't find it hard to believe that a small group of dedicated people can figure out how to make somewhat quality firearms in their garage with modern tools. This talk of people making something like an AR-15 from a printer anytime soon is just someone that's looking for something political out of it, a scare the populace tactic.
- damoncali 14y ago
  It is harder to make a bolt action rifle than an AR-15. The skill and time involved are substantial in both cases, but creating a heat treated bolt gun receiver that works is no joke. But what is much more interesting to me is the interplay between technology and the law. The lower receiver, the regulated part, will be printable (usefully so) within a decade in my view. That makes it possible for someone with basic skills to own a proper semiautomatic rifle without the government even knowing about it. Would that cause regulation of other parts like barrels? Maybe, but barrels are expendable parts...I'm pretty sure the NRA would blow a gasket over that for more than one reason. Triggers? How? What's a "trigger?" Guns, like information, want to be free. It all puts gun control advocates in a bit of a pickle. In fact, it puts prohibitionists of all kinds in a pickle. And that is a good thing.