4 ms·

Wow, they go through this whole spiel without even asking the question of whether or not IQ is hereditary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ htt

Wow, they go through this whole spiel without even asking the question of whether or not IQ is hereditary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ Apparently it is but all the "countless good outcomes" and "positive externalities" quoted in the article boil down to job performance, income, and literacy. As long as you're going to start a eugenics campaign why not throw some other criteria in there like life satisfaction, propensity for illness, muscular strength, generosity, tendency for violence, lack of elitism, or any one of a million other possible objectives.

manmal 14y ago
That was my first thought - when I read "IQ" I already hit the back button. Genes alone are not enough to explain _anything_ - Gene expression, influenced by upbringing, environmental factors etc., better hits the target.
- Daniel_Newby 14y ago
  Studies of twins consistently show a heritability of about 85% for adult IQ and executive function (focus vs. ADHD). The postnatal environment has little effect unless it is severely neglectful or deprived. Edit: added "postnatal".
  - manmal 14y ago
    Do these twins grow up in comparable environments? Another thing to consider: gene expression and brain development is kicked off in the womb, and twins most often share the same mother. I'm not sure your argument applies here.
    - pygy_ 14y ago
      That's the point of twin studies: comparing genetically identical subjects who grew up in different environments. The prenatal influence cannot, practically, be investigated at this point in history.
      - Daniel_Newby 14y ago
        The prenatal influence has been directly tested. They compare pairs of non-identical siblings, some who are twins and some who are not. The same pregnancy pairs are about as similar to each other as the other pairs. So the prenatal environment either has little effect, or it has a significant but highly nonlinear effect. (Once again, this assumes no extreme hardship.)
        pygy_ 14y ago
        Interesting, thanks.
    - Daniel_Newby 14y ago
      Some of the studies use twins raised in the same household, some use twins adopted by different families. They get very similar results.
- 9392732 14y ago
  Although you believe this is the case, a family should be allowed to select what they view as the "best" donor possible
prostoalex 14y ago
Scientific evidence on heritability is inconclusive at this point, from what I understand, there was a recent article on this http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324162304578303992108696034.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732416230457830...? "People have chosen to ignore the genetics of intelligence for a long time," said Mr. Zhao, who hopes to publish his team's initial findings this summer. "People believe it's a controversial topic, especially in the West. That's not the case in China," where IQ studies are regarded more as a scientific challenge and therefore are easier to fund.
JumpCrisscross 14y ago
The Wikipedia article pointed to [1] cites the heritability of IQ from 0.5 to 0.9, settling in between 0.75 and 0.85. I had always believed it to be 0.5 and was surprised at how heritable IQ is, with 57% to 73% of offspring intelligence being explicable by the parents' IQs. Note that "job performance, income, and literacy" are predicted, to varying degrees, by childhood IQ. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ
Terretta 14y ago
> Wow, they go through this whole spiel without even asking the question of whether or not IQ is hereditary. But they do ask exactly that.

manmal 14y ago

That was my first thought - when I read "IQ" I already hit the back button. Genes alone are not enough to explain _anything_ - Gene expression, influenced by upbringing, environmental factors etc., better hits the target.

Daniel_Newby 14y ago
Studies of twins consistently show a heritability of about 85% for adult IQ and executive function (focus vs. ADHD). The postnatal environment has little effect unless it is severely neglectful or deprived. Edit: added "postnatal".
- manmal 14y ago
  Do these twins grow up in comparable environments? Another thing to consider: gene expression and brain development is kicked off in the womb, and twins most often share the same mother. I'm not sure your argument applies here.
  - pygy_ 14y ago
    That's the point of twin studies: comparing genetically identical subjects who grew up in different environments. The prenatal influence cannot, practically, be investigated at this point in history.
    - Daniel_Newby 14y ago
      The prenatal influence has been directly tested. They compare pairs of non-identical siblings, some who are twins and some who are not. The same pregnancy pairs are about as similar to each other as the other pairs. So the prenatal environment either has little effect, or it has a significant but highly nonlinear effect. (Once again, this assumes no extreme hardship.)
      - pygy_ 14y ago
        Interesting, thanks.
  - Daniel_Newby 14y ago
    Some of the studies use twins raised in the same household, some use twins adopted by different families. They get very similar results.
9392732 14y ago
Although you believe this is the case, a family should be allowed to select what they view as the "best" donor possible

prostoalex 14y ago

Scientific evidence on heritability is inconclusive at this point, from what I understand, there was a recent article on this http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324162304578303992108696034.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732416230457830...? "People have chosen to ignore the genetics of intelligence for a long time," said Mr. Zhao, who hopes to publish his team's initial findings this summer. "People believe it's a controversial topic, especially in the West. That's not the case in China," where IQ studies are regarded more as a scientific challenge and therefore are easier to fund.

JumpCrisscross 14y ago

The Wikipedia article pointed to [1] cites the heritability of IQ from 0.5 to 0.9, settling in between 0.75 and 0.85. I had always believed it to be 0.5 and was surprised at how heritable IQ is, with 57% to 73% of offspring intelligence being explicable by the parents' IQs. Note that "job performance, income, and literacy" are predicted, to varying degrees, by childhood IQ. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ

Terretta 14y ago

> Wow, they go through this whole spiel without even asking the question of whether or not IQ is hereditary. But they do ask exactly that.