3 ms·

It's not just rehabilitation. It's also deterrence.

AnthonyMouse 14y ago
How much deterrence do you think longer sentences than that actually provide? Nobody is typically going to commit a crime if they think it will put them in prison for five years. The people who do are just expecting not to be caught. A longer sentence can hardly deter someone who doesn't expect to serve it. It's also worth pointing out that the general public has utterly no idea what the prison sentences are for specific crimes. How can you deter anyone with no knowledge of the deterrent?
- monochromatic 14y ago
  The general public isn't out committing these crimes. Do criminals (and potential criminals) know what sentences are like? I'm not sure, but I'd guess they'd more likely to than people in general.
  - AnthonyMouse 14y ago
    I kind of doubt it. Most street thugs are not about to call up a lawyer and inquire about the penalties imposed on the crimes they intend to commit -- or about anything at all for that matter, because street thugs don't generally have "hiring a lawyer ahead of time" money. Potentially the ones in gangs will know from personal experience or the experience of their compatriots, but then you're right back into not expecting to be caught territory -- or else how can you explain the lack of deterrent effectiveness in reality? I mean just look at the evidence: Has increasing the penalties on drug crimes to insane levels deterred the bulk of the drug dealers from continuing to deal drugs? Obviously not.
- ctdonath 14y ago
  Being in prison deters them from committing more crimes outside prison.
  - AnthonyMouse 14y ago
    That's not deterrence.
    - ctdonath 14y ago
      "You can't get there, and we'll shoot you if you try" is.
habosa 14y ago
I think anyone who is not deterred by 5 years time is either in one of two categories: 1) About to commit an incredibly serious crime, in which case they'll probably get life. 2) Mentally unfit to participate in society, in which case they'll probably fail the psychological evaluations I've mentioned. I'm not saying I have a perfect plan, it's just something I think is the right step towards improvement.
intended 14y ago
A long time ago now, Slashdot had a discussion on the death penalty and the deterrence argument was being tossed around. A cop spoke up and the essence of his point was: The punishment doesn't matter, as much as the sure knowledge that you will be caught.
- monochromatic 14y ago
  Well if some random cop said it, it must be true. Also, how do we make sure people know they're going to get caught? This is comparing something we can control (sentencing) to something we can't (absolute certainty of catching every criminal).
  - intended 14y ago
    Like all management, just because you can control and measure something (sentencing) doesn't mean it will help you achieve your goal (lower crime). Think of it in terms of the broken window effect - if people (all subsections of soceity) know that they are very likely to be caught, then they are very unlikely to commit a crime no matter what the punishment. Only un-meditated crimes would likely slip through the gap. Also if a cop says it, it may mean nothing, but then when coders say different things, it would mean equally little would it not? At least the cop has real world experience. That said I'll see if I can find some studies to back it up.

How much deterrence do you think longer sentences than that actually provide? Nobody is typically going to commit a crime if they think it will put them in prison for five years. The people who do are just expecting not to be caught. A longer sentence can hardly deter someone who doesn't expect to serve it. It's also worth pointing out that the general public has utterly no idea what the prison sentences are for specific crimes. How can you deter anyone with no knowledge of the deterrent?

monochromatic 14y ago
The general public isn't out committing these crimes. Do criminals (and potential criminals) know what sentences are like? I'm not sure, but I'd guess they'd more likely to than people in general.
- AnthonyMouse 14y ago
  I kind of doubt it. Most street thugs are not about to call up a lawyer and inquire about the penalties imposed on the crimes they intend to commit -- or about anything at all for that matter, because street thugs don't generally have "hiring a lawyer ahead of time" money. Potentially the ones in gangs will know from personal experience or the experience of their compatriots, but then you're right back into not expecting to be caught territory -- or else how can you explain the lack of deterrent effectiveness in reality? I mean just look at the evidence: Has increasing the penalties on drug crimes to insane levels deterred the bulk of the drug dealers from continuing to deal drugs? Obviously not.
ctdonath 14y ago
Being in prison deters them from committing more crimes outside prison.
- AnthonyMouse 14y ago
  That's not deterrence.
  - ctdonath 14y ago
    "You can't get there, and we'll shoot you if you try" is.

habosa 14y ago

I think anyone who is not deterred by 5 years time is either in one of two categories: 1) About to commit an incredibly serious crime, in which case they'll probably get life. 2) Mentally unfit to participate in society, in which case they'll probably fail the psychological evaluations I've mentioned. I'm not saying I have a perfect plan, it's just something I think is the right step towards improvement.

intended 14y ago

A long time ago now, Slashdot had a discussion on the death penalty and the deterrence argument was being tossed around. A cop spoke up and the essence of his point was: The punishment doesn't matter, as much as the sure knowledge that you will be caught.

monochromatic 14y ago
Well if some random cop said it, it must be true. Also, how do we make sure people know they're going to get caught? This is comparing something we can control (sentencing) to something we can't (absolute certainty of catching every criminal).
- intended 14y ago
  Like all management, just because you can control and measure something (sentencing) doesn't mean it will help you achieve your goal (lower crime). Think of it in terms of the broken window effect - if people (all subsections of soceity) know that they are very likely to be caught, then they are very unlikely to commit a crime no matter what the punishment. Only un-meditated crimes would likely slip through the gap. Also if a cop says it, it may mean nothing, but then when coders say different things, it would mean equally little would it not? At least the cop has real world experience. That said I'll see if I can find some studies to back it up.