7 ms·

The Twilight Years of Cap'n Crunch (2007)

77 points by davidroberts 14y ago

davidroberts 14y ago
This passage really strikes me, because he is happy, though his life seems so tragic, so emblematic of the dark side of technological obsession. It's a bittersweet mixture of a "there but for the grace of God, go I" feeling and a simultaneous admiration for the purity of his life's focus. It makes me reflect on my own life: "Mr. Draper's unusual behavior, such as shouting at anyone smoking anywhere near him, could wear on fellow workers and employers. 'He was not a self-starter, or associated with all the companies springing up back then,' says Mr. Wozniak. 'But, actually, John is one of the happiest guys I know, no matter what his situation seems.'"
busterarm 14y ago
Not a single mention of energy massages. I'm disappointed. For those unfamiliar, it's really hard to explain just how strange the guy is in print. He's out there.
- eric970 14y ago
  LOL yes, yes yes. I've heard stories of people who met him while staying at the HHH in Brooklyn.
  - busterarm 14y ago
    Is the HHH even still a thing? I'd been to a few parties there back in the day and knew a few of the folks that lived there but haven't heard mention of it in years.
- px43 14y ago
  ctrl+f energy massage
- rangibaby 14y ago
  "Life didn't go as well for Draper; 1980 happened and he ceased doing anything interesting. In this new millenium, he has transformed himself into "Johnny D", creepy old guy that you see at raves in California. He's huge on hugs and if you're a cute enough boy, you might even get one of his special "energy transfer" massages! Turn-offs include cigarette smoke and food that requires chewing." http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/hackers/captain-crunch/ http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/hackers/captain-crunch/
rogerfromzapp 14y ago
his time in the bay area rave scene in the late 90's/early 00's earned him a creepy reputation, mostly due to his fondness of doing "energy work" with shirtless teenage boys.
- busterarm 14y ago
  Seriously. It's like this article tries to tug on your heart strings and make the reader want some justice for this early pioneer in tech and then totally never mentions that he's even more famous for being a total creeper.
- strlen 14y ago
  This can not be under-emphasized. I was in my late teens/early 20s at that time and a lot of my friends who were nerds and into the rave scenes had stories that started with "Oh wow, I met Captain Crunch at a rave, we'll get to hang out soon!" and ended with "You are sweaty, you should take off your shirt!" or "Do you want an energy transfer massage?" I think his preferences are his own business, but using his reputation to approach a bunch folks much younger than he is and otherwise uninterested, probably had a lot to do with ruining any social capital that he had. There's a very legitimate discussion that needs to happen about ageism in the industry, but age is not the sole issue in the case of Captain Crunch.
  - tb303 14y ago
    I first met him in '00 (I think). He came up right after I played a live techno set in a warehouse in Oakland, and I second this. As someone who grew up on 2600, my excitement for meeting Draper quickly turned to backing away once the topic of an energy transfer massage came up.
lutusp 14y ago
A quote from the article: "Mr. Draper received permission from the sheriff's office to attend a computer fair in 1979 in San Francisco, where the program, named after the cult film "Easy Rider," was a hit. It became Apple's first word-processing program. When IBM launched its first PC, it also chose EasyWriter, over competition from other programmers, including a young Bill Gates." I have the real story, and the author should have talked to me. After my program Apple Writer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Writer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Writer) replaced Easy Writer and became Apple's default word processor, someone from IBM called me up and asked me to write a word processor for their PC. I asked "What business terms?" The IBM guy, taken aback that a programmer would switch into business mode so quickly, said, "Okay, you get $100K in royalties, after which we own the program." I thought for a minute, then said, "100K, okay, umm, that's 15 days of Apple Writer royalties right now. I think you'll need to do better than that." But IBM wouldn't budge, and that ended the negotiation. Later I heard they offered Draper the same deal and he accepted. Rumor has it that the PC version of Easy Writer was really terrible and didn't last long. Later, Draper supposedly remarked, "They asked for a hundred thousand dollar word processor, and I gave them one."
- rednukleus 14y ago
  IBM really were messed up in 1979 weren't they? Skimping that badly on the default word processor is just insanity.
  - lutusp 14y ago
    The reason was that IBM looked on their PC as an "entry system", a silly, unimportant introduction to their primary business, mainframes. It's important to realize that IBM didn't see the potential of personal computers -- they thought they would be another passing fad like quadraphonic sound. So they slapped together a really minimal computer, nothing at all remarkable, only hoping to attract people to their main business. They just had no idea what was going to happen, or how the world would look on their PC, given that they were IBM. That's the real reason why older desktop machines are so crappy. That's the reason why IBM wasn't able to compete against their own imitators. And IBM's contemptuous attitude toward their own PC is one of the main reasons Apple was able to introduce the Macintosh to an adoring public. It really was spectacularly better than the original IBM PC.
VLM 14y ago
"I'm blacklisted, man, a permanent menace to society, I guess," No dude, you're just old, in an industry with entrenched ageism. Just like the other accomplished engineers in the story living in mobile homes, couchsurfing, and living in a bus. Not a lack of skill or relevance, so much as an excess of gray hair. Imagine the same story if he went for management instead of engineering, he'd be a CEO somewhere, greatly loved for his eccentricity, etc.
- jpdoctor 14y ago
  > greatly loved for his eccentricity, etc. FTA: "John was a little strange and Jobs felt better staying away from him," says Mr. Wozniak Was I the only guy to find that line amusing?
  - Stratoscope 14y ago
    Steve may have been a strange dude himself, but he wasn't even in the same league with John. My guess about what made him uncomfortable? John probably wanted Steve to "work out" with him. Source: I was into phone phreaking in the late 70s and was friends with John for a while. Until one day he asked me to work out with him. And then I found out what he meant. No thanks!
    - Vekz 14y ago
      Maybe you could elaborate here? Instead of leaving a vague passive comment.
      - kawsper 14y ago
        Search for 'body tune-ups' http://edition.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/07/24/paranoia.idg/index.html http://edition.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/07/24/paranoia.id...
      - Stratoscope 14y ago
        Perhaps some things are better left a bit vague. To explain my discomfort, can I just say that there was an obvious sexual aspect to the "workout" and leave it at that?
ben1040 14y ago
"Mr. Draper several years ago developed some Internet-security equipment and started a company. Some clients were interested, but the company foundered when one of its executives, a fellow raver, made off with much of the money from investors, say Mr. Draper and another executive, John Johnson." I remember back in 2001, seeing Draper speak at University of Illinois about his "CrunchBox" security appliance. I got the vibe that he was just repackaging some open source software on it and putting his name on it. I never really heard anything more about it after that talk, though - I guess this explained what happened.
unimpressive 14y ago
I don't think the article captures quite what "obsessive" means when you're talking about Captain Crunch. This does. http://www.webcrunchers.com/stories/esq-art.html http://www.webcrunchers.com/stories/esq-art.html
harel 14y ago
I met the captain a few times when I was living in California. Weird does not even start to describe him. I was part of the party scene in San Francisco at the time, and heard how he was banned from certain parties because of inappropriate massages. I treated that as rumor until now, when I read different comments specifically about his special massage techniques.
noonespecial 14y ago
I think if I had a great deal of money, I'd skip flying first class a few times per year and "tenure" guys like John by giving him a few $k/month and telling him to go work on whatever he wanted. Just seeing what he came up with each year would be far more entertaining than another beach vacation somewhere.
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  Some friends and I muse about what it would take to create a home for people like John during their twilight years. Its very challenging. There aren't a lot of high tech jobs that pay pensions, and the retirement money is very unevenly distributed around. Not a lot of folks think about that now, but someday, maybe sooner than we would like, some icon of computing history is going to get rousted out of a homeless shelter on national TV. I don't look forward to that day, not at all.
teeja 14y ago
Wow, some of you guys are impressing me with how much you're struggling to suppress your raging homophobia in this thread. I realize the need for some techies to look down on people who won't assent to their brand of whatever for a chance to climb the ladder of temporary success. Draper's more widely known and admired than most of you will ever be. So I guess you gotta do what you gotta do. (which probably doesn't involve hanging out with Woz)
- raldi 14y ago
  Who are you referring to? Could you provide a link? I don't see anything in these comments that looks like homophobia. Maybe they deleted it.
- Stratoscope 14y ago
  It's not homophobia to be put off by unwanted sexual advances. I can only speak for myself, but I would have been just as put off if a woman did the same thing.
Eclyps 14y ago
Back at defcon last year he ended up joining a game of Cards Against Humanity that I was playing. He's an interesting guy for sure, and it's nice to be able to say that I hung out with him for a bit, but he wore out his welcome pretty quickly. He wasn't being rude or disrespectful - he just acted like an old man who had seen a lot of shit. Felt bad for him...

77 points by davidroberts 14y ago

This passage really strikes me, because he is happy, though his life seems so tragic, so emblematic of the dark side of technological obsession. It's a bittersweet mixture of a "there but for the grace of God, go I" feeling and a simultaneous admiration for the purity of his life's focus. It makes me reflect on my own life: "Mr. Draper's unusual behavior, such as shouting at anyone smoking anywhere near him, could wear on fellow workers and employers. 'He was not a self-starter, or associated with all the companies springing up back then,' says Mr. Wozniak. 'But, actually, John is one of the happiest guys I know, no matter what his situation seems.'"

busterarm 14y ago

Not a single mention of energy massages. I'm disappointed. For those unfamiliar, it's really hard to explain just how strange the guy is in print. He's out there.

eric970 14y ago
LOL yes, yes yes. I've heard stories of people who met him while staying at the HHH in Brooklyn.
- busterarm 14y ago
  Is the HHH even still a thing? I'd been to a few parties there back in the day and knew a few of the folks that lived there but haven't heard mention of it in years.
px43 14y ago
ctrl+f energy massage
rangibaby 14y ago
"Life didn't go as well for Draper; 1980 happened and he ceased doing anything interesting. In this new millenium, he has transformed himself into "Johnny D", creepy old guy that you see at raves in California. He's huge on hugs and if you're a cute enough boy, you might even get one of his special "energy transfer" massages! Turn-offs include cigarette smoke and food that requires chewing." http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/hackers/captain-crunch/ http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/hackers/captain-crunch/

rogerfromzapp 14y ago

his time in the bay area rave scene in the late 90's/early 00's earned him a creepy reputation, mostly due to his fondness of doing "energy work" with shirtless teenage boys.

busterarm 14y ago
Seriously. It's like this article tries to tug on your heart strings and make the reader want some justice for this early pioneer in tech and then totally never mentions that he's even more famous for being a total creeper.
strlen 14y ago
This can not be under-emphasized. I was in my late teens/early 20s at that time and a lot of my friends who were nerds and into the rave scenes had stories that started with "Oh wow, I met Captain Crunch at a rave, we'll get to hang out soon!" and ended with "You are sweaty, you should take off your shirt!" or "Do you want an energy transfer massage?" I think his preferences are his own business, but using his reputation to approach a bunch folks much younger than he is and otherwise uninterested, probably had a lot to do with ruining any social capital that he had. There's a very legitimate discussion that needs to happen about ageism in the industry, but age is not the sole issue in the case of Captain Crunch.
- tb303 14y ago
  I first met him in '00 (I think). He came up right after I played a live techno set in a warehouse in Oakland, and I second this. As someone who grew up on 2600, my excitement for meeting Draper quickly turned to backing away once the topic of an energy transfer massage came up.

lutusp 14y ago

A quote from the article: "Mr. Draper received permission from the sheriff's office to attend a computer fair in 1979 in San Francisco, where the program, named after the cult film "Easy Rider," was a hit. It became Apple's first word-processing program. When IBM launched its first PC, it also chose EasyWriter, over competition from other programmers, including a young Bill Gates." I have the real story, and the author should have talked to me. After my program Apple Writer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Writer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Writer) replaced Easy Writer and became Apple's default word processor, someone from IBM called me up and asked me to write a word processor for their PC. I asked "What business terms?" The IBM guy, taken aback that a programmer would switch into business mode so quickly, said, "Okay, you get $100K in royalties, after which we own the program." I thought for a minute, then said, "100K, okay, umm, that's 15 days of Apple Writer royalties right now. I think you'll need to do better than that." But IBM wouldn't budge, and that ended the negotiation. Later I heard they offered Draper the same deal and he accepted. Rumor has it that the PC version of Easy Writer was really terrible and didn't last long. Later, Draper supposedly remarked, "They asked for a hundred thousand dollar word processor, and I gave them one."

rednukleus 14y ago
IBM really were messed up in 1979 weren't they? Skimping that badly on the default word processor is just insanity.
- lutusp 14y ago
  The reason was that IBM looked on their PC as an "entry system", a silly, unimportant introduction to their primary business, mainframes. It's important to realize that IBM didn't see the potential of personal computers -- they thought they would be another passing fad like quadraphonic sound. So they slapped together a really minimal computer, nothing at all remarkable, only hoping to attract people to their main business. They just had no idea what was going to happen, or how the world would look on their PC, given that they were IBM. That's the real reason why older desktop machines are so crappy. That's the reason why IBM wasn't able to compete against their own imitators. And IBM's contemptuous attitude toward their own PC is one of the main reasons Apple was able to introduce the Macintosh to an adoring public. It really was spectacularly better than the original IBM PC.

VLM 14y ago

"I'm blacklisted, man, a permanent menace to society, I guess," No dude, you're just old, in an industry with entrenched ageism. Just like the other accomplished engineers in the story living in mobile homes, couchsurfing, and living in a bus. Not a lack of skill or relevance, so much as an excess of gray hair. Imagine the same story if he went for management instead of engineering, he'd be a CEO somewhere, greatly loved for his eccentricity, etc.

jpdoctor 14y ago
> greatly loved for his eccentricity, etc. FTA: "John was a little strange and Jobs felt better staying away from him," says Mr. Wozniak Was I the only guy to find that line amusing?
- Stratoscope 14y ago
  Steve may have been a strange dude himself, but he wasn't even in the same league with John. My guess about what made him uncomfortable? John probably wanted Steve to "work out" with him. Source: I was into phone phreaking in the late 70s and was friends with John for a while. Until one day he asked me to work out with him. And then I found out what he meant. No thanks!
  - Vekz 14y ago
    Maybe you could elaborate here? Instead of leaving a vague passive comment.
    - kawsper 14y ago
      Search for 'body tune-ups' http://edition.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/07/24/paranoia.idg/index.html http://edition.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/07/24/paranoia.id...
    - Stratoscope 14y ago
      Perhaps some things are better left a bit vague. To explain my discomfort, can I just say that there was an obvious sexual aspect to the "workout" and leave it at that?

ben1040 14y ago

"Mr. Draper several years ago developed some Internet-security equipment and started a company. Some clients were interested, but the company foundered when one of its executives, a fellow raver, made off with much of the money from investors, say Mr. Draper and another executive, John Johnson." I remember back in 2001, seeing Draper speak at University of Illinois about his "CrunchBox" security appliance. I got the vibe that he was just repackaging some open source software on it and putting his name on it. I never really heard anything more about it after that talk, though - I guess this explained what happened.

unimpressive 14y ago

I don't think the article captures quite what "obsessive" means when you're talking about Captain Crunch. This does. http://www.webcrunchers.com/stories/esq-art.html http://www.webcrunchers.com/stories/esq-art.html

harel 14y ago

I met the captain a few times when I was living in California. Weird does not even start to describe him. I was part of the party scene in San Francisco at the time, and heard how he was banned from certain parties because of inappropriate massages. I treated that as rumor until now, when I read different comments specifically about his special massage techniques.

noonespecial 14y ago

I think if I had a great deal of money, I'd skip flying first class a few times per year and "tenure" guys like John by giving him a few $k/month and telling him to go work on whatever he wanted. Just seeing what he came up with each year would be far more entertaining than another beach vacation somewhere.

ChuckMcM 14y ago
Some friends and I muse about what it would take to create a home for people like John during their twilight years. Its very challenging. There aren't a lot of high tech jobs that pay pensions, and the retirement money is very unevenly distributed around. Not a lot of folks think about that now, but someday, maybe sooner than we would like, some icon of computing history is going to get rousted out of a homeless shelter on national TV. I don't look forward to that day, not at all.

teeja 14y ago

Wow, some of you guys are impressing me with how much you're struggling to suppress your raging homophobia in this thread. I realize the need for some techies to look down on people who won't assent to their brand of whatever for a chance to climb the ladder of temporary success. Draper's more widely known and admired than most of you will ever be. So I guess you gotta do what you gotta do. (which probably doesn't involve hanging out with Woz)

raldi 14y ago
Who are you referring to? Could you provide a link? I don't see anything in these comments that looks like homophobia. Maybe they deleted it.
Stratoscope 14y ago
It's not homophobia to be put off by unwanted sexual advances. I can only speak for myself, but I would have been just as put off if a woman did the same thing.

Eclyps 14y ago

Back at defcon last year he ended up joining a game of Cards Against Humanity that I was playing. He's an interesting guy for sure, and it's nice to be able to say that I hung out with him for a bit, but he wore out his welcome pretty quickly. He wasn't being rude or disrespectful - he just acted like an old man who had seen a lot of shit. Felt bad for him...