8 ms·

Cognitive enhancement drug may also cause addiction

15 points by robg 18y ago

icey 18y ago
Out of curiosity, are there any legal stimulants that are non-addictive and generally low risk to risk free? I quit smoking a couple of years ago, and my brain never fully recovered from quitting. I've felt mentally slower ever since I quit. I've occasionally taken Modafinil, and whenever I've taken it, my brain resumes back to my smoking baseline. I don't feel amped up on it at all, just normal.
- swombat 18y ago
  I don't think there are any central nervous system stimulants which don't have the potential for addiction, legal or not...
- rms 18y ago
  A lot of people on here probably meet the criteria for ADHD. Methylphenidate is addictive to a certain extent, but not as much as caffeine and is basically risk free when taken as prescribed. I agree with the other poster, I don't think there are any stimulants that are tolerance free.
- arockwell 18y ago
  Strattera has the same concentration improving effects of stimulants and is not habit forming.
  - rms 18y ago
    Strattera is not a stimulant, it is an NRI, a class of drugs that are mostly anti depressants. In a statistical sense, it does not treat ADHD nearly as well as methylphenidate or amphetamine.
- chris11 18y ago
  I was slightly curious too, and so did some searching. Surprisingly stimulants can actually decrease risk of addiction to drugs or alcohol. It was found that adults who were prescribed medication for ADHD were at less risk for substance abuse. Now I don't no whether it just reduced risk for addictions to things other than stimulants, or that it just reduced addiction in people who had ADHD, but it at least shows that there is a medically safe dose for some people. http://www.drugabuse.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol14N4/ADHD.html http://www.drugabuse.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol14N4/ADHD.html
  - extension 18y ago
    Treating a mental disorder/personality quirk that is fucking up your life will reduce your risk for substance abuse, not to mention loose women and rock and roll. It also helps if the drug you're being treated with has a lot of the same effects, or is in fact the same substance, as the drugs you would otherwise abuse.
- katz 18y ago
  If you are talking about cognitive enhancement there are a few (not all are technically “stimulants”). Firstly, things rich in Omega 3 has shown to improve your memory (e.g. flaxseed oil). Ginkgo Bilbao has shown to work in some studies. Then there is things such as Piracetam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam) that has shown to improve memory.
  - icey 18y ago
    It's more a concentration issue than it is general memory and cognition. I've tried piracetam and aniracetam, and neither of them really did much for me. I actually had better luck with gingko biloba. Personally, it's not a huge issue; it just frustrates me that I know I'm not operating at peak capacity. Still, if I know I'm going to have a day where I need to be able to keep a lot of various fiddly bits in my head while I work through a particularly rough patch of logic; every little bit helps.
    - rms 18y ago
      I would be very surprised if you don't meet the criteria for ADHD. Why not talk to a psychiatrist or general physician about it? The prescription stimulants greatly improve one's ability to keep various fiddly bits in one's head. They've been around for so long that their safety is very well documented.
      - swombat 18y ago
        I downmodded you for your willingness to diagnose ADHD in someone you don't know. Most people have some mental quirks. The difference between a quirk (that doesn't need treatment) and a disorder (that needs treatment) is whether it is so disruptive that it prevents you from living a life which you consider normal. Being easily distracted does not automatically imply that you should start a regular course of amphetamines prescribed by your neighbourhood friendly psychiatrist.
        rms 18y ago
swombat 18y ago
How is this news? Even modafinil.com and Wikipedia already list Dopamine effects from modafinil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil http://modafinil.com http://modafinil.com Worth noting, too, that "may cause addiction" does not equal "causes addiction".
- robg 18y ago
  Nice catch. It's the first imaging study to show the effect, I guess. I think this is one of the reasons for its popularity. It not only makes some folks alert. It makes them happy and alert. That's the holy combination. Caffeine doesn't quite get there and how big is that market? When we look back in fifty years at the development of custom (and cosmetic) psychotropics, I bet modafinil leads the story.
speek 18y ago
Don't screw around with your brain unless you're willing to accept the consequences for something bad happening to it.
extension 18y ago
Irrespective of observable physiological effects, any drug, or indeed anything that improves our quality of life is addictive. Addiction is part of the human condition and we're better off just accepting it and letting ourselves get hooked on things, subject to our own rationally chosen limits. Those choices should be based on the strength of the addiction and the benefits and risks of the addictive object. The chemical/psychological distinction is hardly important.
- katz 18y ago
  > drug, or indeed anything that improves our quality of life is addictive. There is a difference between using something (and getting used to it because it increases your quality of life) and a chemical addiction. > The chemical/psychological distinction is hardly important. There is a huge difference. If you are addicted to something it is pretty much a physiological effect on you.
  - Andys 18y ago
    I agree up to a point, but we know that psychological events cause physiological changes, not just vice-versa. Simple example, the addiction of the adrenaline rush and dopamine release of extreme sports.
  - a-priori 18y ago
    Often when people, and especially the media, say "addiction" they're actually referring to psychological dependence. Most physiological addictions have a psychological component. As an example, I'm addicted to caffeine, but I'm also dependent on coffee as part of a morning routine. Smokers who are addicted to nicotine are often also dependent on the social aspects of being a smoker. It's often the psychological component that, long term, is the hardest to break. The converse, however, is not true. A good example is so-called "Internet addiction" which should rightfully be called "Internet dependence", at best, because it has no physiological component.
    - TJensen 18y ago
      To say that something like internet addiction has no physiological component is to vastly understate the power our brain has over the rest of our body. If your method of getting a dopamine rush is the internet (or world of warcraft, porn, gambling, etc), you are still going to get physiologically attached to that dopamine rush and will suffer negative physical reactions (poor mood, etc) if those things are taken away.

15 points by robg 18y ago

icey 18y ago

Out of curiosity, are there any legal stimulants that are non-addictive and generally low risk to risk free? I quit smoking a couple of years ago, and my brain never fully recovered from quitting. I've felt mentally slower ever since I quit. I've occasionally taken Modafinil, and whenever I've taken it, my brain resumes back to my smoking baseline. I don't feel amped up on it at all, just normal.

swombat 18y ago
I don't think there are any central nervous system stimulants which don't have the potential for addiction, legal or not...
rms 18y ago
A lot of people on here probably meet the criteria for ADHD. Methylphenidate is addictive to a certain extent, but not as much as caffeine and is basically risk free when taken as prescribed. I agree with the other poster, I don't think there are any stimulants that are tolerance free.
arockwell 18y ago
Strattera has the same concentration improving effects of stimulants and is not habit forming.
- rms 18y ago
  Strattera is not a stimulant, it is an NRI, a class of drugs that are mostly anti depressants. In a statistical sense, it does not treat ADHD nearly as well as methylphenidate or amphetamine.
chris11 18y ago
I was slightly curious too, and so did some searching. Surprisingly stimulants can actually decrease risk of addiction to drugs or alcohol. It was found that adults who were prescribed medication for ADHD were at less risk for substance abuse. Now I don't no whether it just reduced risk for addictions to things other than stimulants, or that it just reduced addiction in people who had ADHD, but it at least shows that there is a medically safe dose for some people. http://www.drugabuse.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol14N4/ADHD.html http://www.drugabuse.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol14N4/ADHD.html
- extension 18y ago
  Treating a mental disorder/personality quirk that is fucking up your life will reduce your risk for substance abuse, not to mention loose women and rock and roll. It also helps if the drug you're being treated with has a lot of the same effects, or is in fact the same substance, as the drugs you would otherwise abuse.
katz 18y ago
If you are talking about cognitive enhancement there are a few (not all are technically “stimulants”). Firstly, things rich in Omega 3 has shown to improve your memory (e.g. flaxseed oil). Ginkgo Bilbao has shown to work in some studies. Then there is things such as Piracetam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam) that has shown to improve memory.
- icey 18y ago
  It's more a concentration issue than it is general memory and cognition. I've tried piracetam and aniracetam, and neither of them really did much for me. I actually had better luck with gingko biloba. Personally, it's not a huge issue; it just frustrates me that I know I'm not operating at peak capacity. Still, if I know I'm going to have a day where I need to be able to keep a lot of various fiddly bits in my head while I work through a particularly rough patch of logic; every little bit helps.
  - rms 18y ago
    I would be very surprised if you don't meet the criteria for ADHD. Why not talk to a psychiatrist or general physician about it? The prescription stimulants greatly improve one's ability to keep various fiddly bits in one's head. They've been around for so long that their safety is very well documented.
    - swombat 18y ago
      I downmodded you for your willingness to diagnose ADHD in someone you don't know. Most people have some mental quirks. The difference between a quirk (that doesn't need treatment) and a disorder (that needs treatment) is whether it is so disruptive that it prevents you from living a life which you consider normal. Being easily distracted does not automatically imply that you should start a regular course of amphetamines prescribed by your neighbourhood friendly psychiatrist.
      - rms 18y ago

swombat 18y ago

How is this news? Even modafinil.com and Wikipedia already list Dopamine effects from modafinil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil http://modafinil.com http://modafinil.com Worth noting, too, that "may cause addiction" does not equal "causes addiction".

robg 18y ago
Nice catch. It's the first imaging study to show the effect, I guess. I think this is one of the reasons for its popularity. It not only makes some folks alert. It makes them happy and alert. That's the holy combination. Caffeine doesn't quite get there and how big is that market? When we look back in fifty years at the development of custom (and cosmetic) psychotropics, I bet modafinil leads the story.

speek 18y ago

Don't screw around with your brain unless you're willing to accept the consequences for something bad happening to it.

extension 18y ago

Irrespective of observable physiological effects, any drug, or indeed anything that improves our quality of life is addictive. Addiction is part of the human condition and we're better off just accepting it and letting ourselves get hooked on things, subject to our own rationally chosen limits. Those choices should be based on the strength of the addiction and the benefits and risks of the addictive object. The chemical/psychological distinction is hardly important.

katz 18y ago
> drug, or indeed anything that improves our quality of life is addictive. There is a difference between using something (and getting used to it because it increases your quality of life) and a chemical addiction. > The chemical/psychological distinction is hardly important. There is a huge difference. If you are addicted to something it is pretty much a physiological effect on you.
- Andys 18y ago
  I agree up to a point, but we know that psychological events cause physiological changes, not just vice-versa. Simple example, the addiction of the adrenaline rush and dopamine release of extreme sports.
- a-priori 18y ago
  Often when people, and especially the media, say "addiction" they're actually referring to psychological dependence. Most physiological addictions have a psychological component. As an example, I'm addicted to caffeine, but I'm also dependent on coffee as part of a morning routine. Smokers who are addicted to nicotine are often also dependent on the social aspects of being a smoker. It's often the psychological component that, long term, is the hardest to break. The converse, however, is not true. A good example is so-called "Internet addiction" which should rightfully be called "Internet dependence", at best, because it has no physiological component.
  - TJensen 18y ago
    To say that something like internet addiction has no physiological component is to vastly understate the power our brain has over the rest of our body. If your method of getting a dopamine rush is the internet (or world of warcraft, porn, gambling, etc), you are still going to get physiologically attached to that dopamine rush and will suffer negative physical reactions (poor mood, etc) if those things are taken away.