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I thought their press release of less than a week ago said those people were supposed to improve WebKit :-) Can imagine that quite a few of those fired would h

by gcp 14y ago

I thought their press release of less than a week ago said those people were supposed to improve WebKit :-) Can imagine that quite a few of those fired would have been tough to motivate, though. Nobody likes seeing their lifework put out and shot.

muyuu 14y ago
Yep, usually all these announcements come with a massive dosage of bullshit. I hope they can keep their engine alive elsewhere... not likely though.
runarb 14y ago
A culture crash may have contributed to that so many are leaving. According to the Opera CEO, iOS and Android are the future for Opera now[0]. One could argue that Opera now are in more need of 25 years old iOS developers, that 40+ C++ specialists. 0: http://translate.google.no/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.digi.no%2F911808%2Fbittersott-og-nytt-i-opera http://translate.google.no/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=...
- avar 14y ago
  > One could argue that Opera now are in > more need of 25 years old iOS developers, > that 40+ C++ specialists. One could, but would one not be assuming that their 20+ years of experience wouldn't more than make up for whatever platform-specific skills they'd need to train on which could surely be picked up in less than a year?
  - rplnt 14y ago
    Assuming they want to use their skills that way.
    - dagw 14y ago
      Indeed. At least from the article it sounds like everybody was given the option to move to other projects, mainly client side mobile and desktop development, but a significant portion of the engineers turned down the offer.
  - dottedmag 14y ago
    It would make up, but it would also come with a hefty price tag.
- gcp 14y ago
  One could argue that Opera now are in more need of 25 years old iOS developers, that 40+ C++ specialists. To do what, make more Angry Birds clones? Engineers that spent 15 years working on every possible mobile device aren't suddenly magically unable to start working on a new one.
  - blaabjerg 14y ago
    Engineers that spent many years working on challenging problems in highly performance-critical areas of the core engine might not be all that interested in doing UI design on iOS.
    - gcp 14y ago
      I guess this depends on whether there will be more to Opera than a Chrome skin. Sigh.
      - blowski 14y ago
        Webkit ≠ Chrome. I think it's important that web developers do all they can to stop that idea becoming widespread, before people think all other browsers are just a knocked off version of Chrome.
        pcwalton 14y ago
        Opera is basing its new browser on Chromium specifically, not just WebKit.
        gcp 14y ago
        ...which is why I used the term "it depends". If they knock off Chrome, they don't need back-end C++ programmers. If they don't, they'll need them where they want to technically innovate. But apparently, it really will be a Chrome knockoff now.
- MatthewPhillips 14y ago
  This comes across as incredibly ageist. Why do the iOS developers have to be 25?
  - addlepate 14y ago
    I think that was the point...
bobsy 14y ago
I thought that all the developer time they are saving would go into improving the browser and only a small number of people would be contributing to WebKit. I.e. browser improves faster as less time is spent working on the browser engine. Now it is obvious. Cost saving! Which is fine, just a bit disappointing. Especially considering how they have 3 products. Opera, Opera Mini and the new Tablet Browser (I don't know if this is replacing Mini)
- azakai 14y ago
  Opera isn't switching to WebKit, it's switching to the Chromium codebase (which uses WebKit). Chromium is a full browser, so Opera is basically outsourcing it's browser development to Google (which aside from practically all Chromium work also does most WebKit work these days). This makes perfect business sense for Opera - why work hard to make a browser, when it can get one for free. As a plus, that browser uses WebKit, so its main competitors - mobile Safari and the mobile version of Chrome - will never be ahead of it on core engine features. Furthermore, one of those competitors, Chrome, will never be ahead of it in any way since they will be practically the same browser. For that reason I doubt anyone believed Opera would be putting much engineering effort into core WebKit or even core Chromium. It makes no business sense - Google is already doing all the hard work on Chromium (and WebKit, with others), and anything Opera adds to WebKit shows up in its main competitors immediately. What Opera does need engineers for is to replace the Google-specific stuff in Chrome, like login to Google services and other Google web services. Also Opera will modify the UI. Opera can also add some stuff on top of that to differentiate. But Opera simply no longer needs a significant browser engine department - Google is now that department.
  - bambax 14y ago
    But that means Opera is dead. There is no Opera. What is the value of a skin on top of Chrome?
    - plorkyeran 14y ago
      If they manage to keep most of their features not directly related to the rendering engine that Chrome doesn't have, it would be of great value.
prumek 14y ago
What makes you think they aren't goig to work on Webkit? Out of those 90 people who left or were fired, there were marketing, sales, etc. personell. Only a minority was probably an actual developer.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
markokocic 14y ago
Maybe they hope they will improve open source Webkit on their own free time, which they will have much more than before being laid off from Opera.

by gcp 14y ago

muyuu 14y ago

Yep, usually all these announcements come with a massive dosage of bullshit. I hope they can keep their engine alive elsewhere... not likely though.

runarb 14y ago

A culture crash may have contributed to that so many are leaving. According to the Opera CEO, iOS and Android are the future for Opera now[0]. One could argue that Opera now are in more need of 25 years old iOS developers, that 40+ C++ specialists. 0: http://translate.google.no/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.digi.no%2F911808%2Fbittersott-og-nytt-i-opera http://translate.google.no/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=...

avar 14y ago
> One could argue that Opera now are in > more need of 25 years old iOS developers, > that 40+ C++ specialists. One could, but would one not be assuming that their 20+ years of experience wouldn't more than make up for whatever platform-specific skills they'd need to train on which could surely be picked up in less than a year?
- rplnt 14y ago
  Assuming they want to use their skills that way.
  - dagw 14y ago
    Indeed. At least from the article it sounds like everybody was given the option to move to other projects, mainly client side mobile and desktop development, but a significant portion of the engineers turned down the offer.
- dottedmag 14y ago
  It would make up, but it would also come with a hefty price tag.
gcp 14y ago
One could argue that Opera now are in more need of 25 years old iOS developers, that 40+ C++ specialists. To do what, make more Angry Birds clones? Engineers that spent 15 years working on every possible mobile device aren't suddenly magically unable to start working on a new one.
- blaabjerg 14y ago
  Engineers that spent many years working on challenging problems in highly performance-critical areas of the core engine might not be all that interested in doing UI design on iOS.
  - gcp 14y ago
    I guess this depends on whether there will be more to Opera than a Chrome skin. Sigh.
    - blowski 14y ago
      Webkit ≠ Chrome. I think it's important that web developers do all they can to stop that idea becoming widespread, before people think all other browsers are just a knocked off version of Chrome.
      - pcwalton 14y ago
        Opera is basing its new browser on Chromium specifically, not just WebKit.
      - gcp 14y ago
        ...which is why I used the term "it depends". If they knock off Chrome, they don't need back-end C++ programmers. If they don't, they'll need them where they want to technically innovate. But apparently, it really will be a Chrome knockoff now.
MatthewPhillips 14y ago
This comes across as incredibly ageist. Why do the iOS developers have to be 25?
- addlepate 14y ago
  I think that was the point...

bobsy 14y ago

I thought that all the developer time they are saving would go into improving the browser and only a small number of people would be contributing to WebKit. I.e. browser improves faster as less time is spent working on the browser engine. Now it is obvious. Cost saving! Which is fine, just a bit disappointing. Especially considering how they have 3 products. Opera, Opera Mini and the new Tablet Browser (I don't know if this is replacing Mini)

azakai 14y ago
Opera isn't switching to WebKit, it's switching to the Chromium codebase (which uses WebKit). Chromium is a full browser, so Opera is basically outsourcing it's browser development to Google (which aside from practically all Chromium work also does most WebKit work these days). This makes perfect business sense for Opera - why work hard to make a browser, when it can get one for free. As a plus, that browser uses WebKit, so its main competitors - mobile Safari and the mobile version of Chrome - will never be ahead of it on core engine features. Furthermore, one of those competitors, Chrome, will never be ahead of it in any way since they will be practically the same browser. For that reason I doubt anyone believed Opera would be putting much engineering effort into core WebKit or even core Chromium. It makes no business sense - Google is already doing all the hard work on Chromium (and WebKit, with others), and anything Opera adds to WebKit shows up in its main competitors immediately. What Opera does need engineers for is to replace the Google-specific stuff in Chrome, like login to Google services and other Google web services. Also Opera will modify the UI. Opera can also add some stuff on top of that to differentiate. But Opera simply no longer needs a significant browser engine department - Google is now that department.
- bambax 14y ago
  But that means Opera is dead. There is no Opera. What is the value of a skin on top of Chrome?
  - plorkyeran 14y ago
    If they manage to keep most of their features not directly related to the rendering engine that Chrome doesn't have, it would be of great value.

prumek 14y ago

What makes you think they aren't goig to work on Webkit? Out of those 90 people who left or were fired, there were marketing, sales, etc. personell. Only a minority was probably an actual developer.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

markokocic 14y ago

Maybe they hope they will improve open source Webkit on their own free time, which they will have much more than before being laid off from Opera.