4 ms·

It's unclear if the world will move towards native apps or stay on the open web. Preventing anyone from having a DRM solution for the web makes it more likely t

by jshen 14y ago

It's unclear if the world will move towards native apps or stay on the open web. Preventing anyone from having a DRM solution for the web makes it more likely the world will move to native apps. That would be a bad outcome in my opinion. I also fail to understand your ideology. Anyone who creates content should have the ability to decide how they wish to sell and distribute that content. I think DRM is futile, but I don't think it is bad as you seem to believe.

shmerl 14y ago
There are applications which are used outside the browsers. And DRM is a perfect example - DRM has no place in the open Web. I don't see a problem with pushing bad technologies off the Web (or altogether off for that matter). Good riddance! Idea here is rather straightforward. Publishers indeed have a choice to treat their users with respect, or to insult them with DRM. But we aren't talking about them making this choice - it's up to them. We are talking about W3C putting an unethical technology in a Web standard, to oblige some publishers who made that unethical choice. It's unacceptable! It's not different from saying that since malware creators want an ability to affect their users, W3C should standardize malware methods for the Web.
- jshen 14y ago
  your ideology makes no sense to me.
  - shmerl 14y ago
    What exactly? You have hard time understanding that DRM is unethical, or that open Web doesn't need it?
    - jshen 14y ago
      If I'm a musician, and I want to sell my music in a way that prevents the buyer from redistributing it, then I don't think that is unethical. I think the musician has the right to make that choice. You have a right not to buy it in that form.
      - shmerl 14y ago
        Can a musician come to your house and start monitoring you to prevent redistribution? No, it's invasive and unethical to do it. It's along the lines of invasive surveillance in a totalitarian police state for the sake of "security". Treating your paying customers in such way is a gross disrespect. DRM does exactly that - it's preemptive policing which violates privacy and treats users as potential criminals by default. It's insulting and unethical to do so. I'm not even saying that it's pointless, since it doesn't prevent piracy. DRM punishes and insults paying customers who care to buy the content, and does nothing to stop illegal redistribution and doesn't affect those who don't care to buy and pirate the stuff. So what is the point in using it? To upset paying customers by limiting usability of the content and by increasing security and malware risks in shady DRM programs? Distributors should start treating users with respect if they want any respect back. And it always pays off. In general I get the feeling that actual creators (musicians, authors and etc.) don't care about all this DRM idiocy. Those who push it are publishers/distributors, who can't comprehend a simple thing - DRM has no useful application at all, all it does - it degrades the user experience and punishes paying customers.
        jshen 14y ago
        I'm sorry, DRM is not like a musician coming to your house and monitoring you. That is where you lose me and probably most people. I also disagree with the idea that protecting content you create is unethical. If I own a store, and put a lock on the door, it is not unethical because I am assuming that someone might try to break in and take stuff. That is roughly what you are saying. Or you know how most pharmacies and grocery stores keep some things behind a locked display? I do not find that to be unethical, yet by your logic we should. I'm a customer, and I don't find DRM insulting to me. I see it as content creators attempting to find a way to continue getting paid for content they create in this new world. I think it is pointless, but that is very different from what you are saying. I see absolutely no harm in adding the ability to use DRM in html5 video. It has absolutely no affect on the rest of the open web. There is still the ability to put non-DRMed content on the web. If you truly believed that customers would reject DRM, and you seem to think so, then you shouldn't have a problem with giving people the choice and letting consumers vote with their feet.

by jshen 14y ago

shmerl 14y ago

There are applications which are used outside the browsers. And DRM is a perfect example - DRM has no place in the open Web. I don't see a problem with pushing bad technologies off the Web (or altogether off for that matter). Good riddance! Idea here is rather straightforward. Publishers indeed have a choice to treat their users with respect, or to insult them with DRM. But we aren't talking about them making this choice - it's up to them. We are talking about W3C putting an unethical technology in a Web standard, to oblige some publishers who made that unethical choice. It's unacceptable! It's not different from saying that since malware creators want an ability to affect their users, W3C should standardize malware methods for the Web.

jshen 14y ago
your ideology makes no sense to me.
- shmerl 14y ago
  What exactly? You have hard time understanding that DRM is unethical, or that open Web doesn't need it?
  - jshen 14y ago
    If I'm a musician, and I want to sell my music in a way that prevents the buyer from redistributing it, then I don't think that is unethical. I think the musician has the right to make that choice. You have a right not to buy it in that form.
    - shmerl 14y ago
      Can a musician come to your house and start monitoring you to prevent redistribution? No, it's invasive and unethical to do it. It's along the lines of invasive surveillance in a totalitarian police state for the sake of "security". Treating your paying customers in such way is a gross disrespect. DRM does exactly that - it's preemptive policing which violates privacy and treats users as potential criminals by default. It's insulting and unethical to do so. I'm not even saying that it's pointless, since it doesn't prevent piracy. DRM punishes and insults paying customers who care to buy the content, and does nothing to stop illegal redistribution and doesn't affect those who don't care to buy and pirate the stuff. So what is the point in using it? To upset paying customers by limiting usability of the content and by increasing security and malware risks in shady DRM programs? Distributors should start treating users with respect if they want any respect back. And it always pays off. In general I get the feeling that actual creators (musicians, authors and etc.) don't care about all this DRM idiocy. Those who push it are publishers/distributors, who can't comprehend a simple thing - DRM has no useful application at all, all it does - it degrades the user experience and punishes paying customers.
      - jshen 14y ago
        I'm sorry, DRM is not like a musician coming to your house and monitoring you. That is where you lose me and probably most people. I also disagree with the idea that protecting content you create is unethical. If I own a store, and put a lock on the door, it is not unethical because I am assuming that someone might try to break in and take stuff. That is roughly what you are saying. Or you know how most pharmacies and grocery stores keep some things behind a locked display? I do not find that to be unethical, yet by your logic we should. I'm a customer, and I don't find DRM insulting to me. I see it as content creators attempting to find a way to continue getting paid for content they create in this new world. I think it is pointless, but that is very different from what you are saying. I see absolutely no harm in adding the ability to use DRM in html5 video. It has absolutely no affect on the rest of the open web. There is still the ability to put non-DRMed content on the web. If you truly believed that customers would reject DRM, and you seem to think so, then you shouldn't have a problem with giving people the choice and letting consumers vote with their feet.