7 ms·
The “It” Crowd Doesn’t Like Me and I Finally Don’t Care
- Redoubtable 14y agoI will upvote my own ramble!
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- jpdoctor 14y agoAnd did it serve its purpose?
- Redoubtable 14y agoUnburden myself from otherwise useless and unproductive emo feelings? I sure hope so.
- olgeni 14y agoIf only we could unburden ourselves from J2EE in the same way...!
- tptacek 14y agoYou can curse us all you want. I curse things at random all the time. But then get back to work. The challenge you've briefly engaged with isn't a problem; it's a market opportunity. While the "it" crowd is repeatedly failing to achieve any lasting success with their completely pointless photo-sharing applications running on their 4th successive new storage backend (was mysql, then mongo, then homebrew, now postgres; really, was database-of-the-week really the social scene you wanted an entry pass into?), pick out offerings specifically based on what the "it" crowd would find unfashionable. See if they're not begging you for jobs a few years from now. The valley clique isn't a privilege for 20-something men; it's a trap for them. It eats their time, and, at least where it intersects with Hacker News, serves to out people you'll know never to work with professionally.
- Redoubtable 14y agoCould not agree with you more. Part of the reason I wrote this was so I could mentally reset myself to get back to work. Frankly I'm embarrassed I got caught in the trap and spent valuable emotional energy on it caring about it in the first place. - Julie
- thesagan 14y agoFrankly, I needed to read your blog post for a "situation" I'm currently in, so your embarrassment is not in vain :)
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- michaelwww 14y agoIt might help to think of the Hollywood model. The pretty young men they put out front are the actors and you are the writer. It's been noted before many times that writers don't get much respect, but they are the geniuses who come up with the narrative, the dialog, and the ideas that make up a successful production. Writers usually don't show off well to investors or at parties. That's where the pretty faces come in. I'm usually dismissive of the next young genius on the cover, because I'm more interested in the real brains behind the outfit, who may or may not be marginally social-able introvert living in an eco-bunker somewhere who definitely does not want the attention.
- smackay 14y agoMichael Lewis' book, The New New Thing, probably offers a good insight to this. Jim Clark is probably the character that all the choreographers of pretty faces seek to emulate.
- marquis 14y agoTry travelling and telling people what you do - you'll blow their minds. I take my laptop anywhere from New Zealand to Dubai to Argentina, and working On The Internet is still a novelty that you'll gain hearts and minds from the wonder of it all. Get some perpective on how awesome your life and work is!
- radio4fan 14y agoWhat is this mysterious drivel? Who is brianvan5155 and why hasn't he made any comments? How has this made it to the front page? What can it all mean?
- Redoubtable 14y agoApparently it is my mysterious drivel! I have no idea how it got to the front page and this is Brian Van: http://brianvan.tumblr.com/ http://brianvan.tumblr.com/
- brianvan5155 14y agoI'm a web producer and developer. I'm an early commenter from Slashdot, Ars Technica, and Gawker. I've been using online communities for 22 years, longer than some people around here have been alive. I've read quite a few threads on HN and respect this as a news source, and I haven't felt fit to contribute until now. I've been talking with Julie about her experiences as a like-minded professional and I also remain baffled why her extremely sensible business plan continues to //receive tepid interest// (EDIT: originally wrote "go unfunded" here but I'm speaking inaccurately and out-of-line) despite an aggressive half-year VC campaign while the most harebrained ideas in the world (founded by prep school dudes) seem to effortlessly accumulate resources provided by others... including free press from many of the news sources that get shared here frequently. I believe business leaders in our industry play favorites and manipulate us into believing their partners are somehow better and more deserving than the rest of us... and that it fattens their bottom line and increases their domination of the culture of this industry. I think more of us need to take a stand against this... if not just on principle, but because it's good business and certainly a better plan than the lengthy boom/bust cycles this VC ruling class keeps leading the rest of us through like lemmings, leading to capital shortages and employment drop-offs that starve families and stifle innovation. So, let's use this as a forum to discuss what may or may not be wrong about this view of things.
- rdouble 14y agoremain baffled why her extremely sensible business plan continues to go unfunded despite an aggressive half-year VC campaign while the most harebrained ideas in the world Maybe cuz it's an API for social games. No Silicon Valley VC will fund anything that has to do with games these days. Untried harebrained ideas at least don't have dismal track records yet.
- rosenjon 14y agoNice post. I'll take revenue and profitability over media hype and "it" status any day of the week. It's kind of shocking how many early stage companies have absolutely no plan for revenue/profit, and point to outliers like Facebook and Twitter as their playbook for success. There are meaningless debates about 10 millions users being the new 1 million (http://www.businessinsider.com/10-million-users-is-not-the-new-1-million-2012-8 http://www.businessinsider.com/10-million-users-is-not-the-n...). To me, it is just indicative of a pervasive sickness in early stage tech. Remember, it doesn't matter how many users you have unless you can monetize them.
- Redoubtable 14y agoYou would think I would take that too but apparently I'm an idiot and got caught up in useless crap. We make marketing software for big brands so all our "users" are monetized because well ummm that is our business model. Enterprise is great that way! No one gets the product for free!
- larrys 14y ago"We make marketing software for big brands" You might want to put that front and center in your home page message. Also your "playapi" logo is totally unreadable in both Firefox as well as Safari (v-latest).
- Redoubtable 14y agoWell now that I've just managed to out myself to the entire world (well the world here, wasn't expecting that). We probably will! No VC we've talked to has ever wanted to hear we make marketing software for brands. But if I'm not caring anymore then yeah how we speak to our clients will be how we speak to everyone now. How very liberating.
- larrys 14y ago"I'll take revenue and profitability over media hype and "it" status any day of the week." All that is fine of course and true. But there are side benefits to "it" status. For one thing it can help you attract talent and get the type of attention that can lead to success. Let me give you an example. I've helped both high profile people and people who are nobodies with advice. In general the nobodies are much more thankful for the advice (and have even sent me gifts as thank you's). The high profile people say "thank you". "Name dropping". But the fact that I do the work for high profile people, well, I use that in my marketing to attract paid customers that actually put money in my pocket. And it works.
- Skoofoo 14y agoI've never had much regard for Silicon Valley business types. I am convinced that the only thing that truly matters to succeed in tech is to create something that people want but don't necessarily know it yet. Everything else is just fluff.
- niggler 14y agoPart of the problem is that the more successful businesses in the traditional sense (revenue, etc) are run by people who, as a whole, are more humble. There are plenty of successful business owners here and elsewhere who feel no need to stroke their ego or fight for mindshare in the glamour of silicon valley.
- rdouble 14y agoIt's pretty easy to get "liked" by the "it crowd" in silicon valley - you just hire a better PR agent.
- pud 14y agoGenerally, being profitable precludes a company from getting "silly [high] valuations" & buzz in Silicon Valley. Unless they're really, really profitable. Big valuations usually stem from not knowing how much a company will make once they start charging for stuff. So the "it" crowd works itself into a frenzy and VCs take a big gamble. But once you make a dollar, all the mystery is gone. You're judged & valued pretty much on your revenue alone. Which is usually low (startups are hard) and unsexy (so not a ton of buzz). Not saying a agree with it. But that's how it is.
- FrojoS 14y agoInteresting. So "Lets not risk growth my premature monetization, like ads, which could repel early adopters." is often just an excuse to avoid income and thereby improve valuations?
- pyre 14y agoNot necessarily. The issue is that usually there is no roadmap beyond: 1. Explosive Growth 2. ??? 3. Profit!
- ahoyhere 14y agoIf it's totally a fantasy, it can be anything they want. The moment reality barges in, suddenly there's cold hard math to be done.
- yesimahuman 14y agoI've been thinking a lot about this as well. Once you start meeting people and seeing the reality behind the media, you realize that "great" outcomes in startups are rarely perfect (acquihire forced by investors, over-dilution, etc.) and that things aren't always going as well as people say. In reality, being happy seems to be the hardest thing to achieve, but I'm starting to think that is what success really is.
- mikecane 14y ago>>>Being cool has never been about begging to be liked. >>>It turns out I’ve got a startup that happens to be a business. You know what that means? We make money. That second part. That is what is cool.
- Redoubtable 14y agoHeh. Thanks. Glad someone thinks it is cool!
- superflit 14y agoSomeone has PMS...
- cududa 14y agoWas that you trying to make an ironically chauvinistic joke, or are you just a sexist ass?
- Redoubtable 14y agoHeh well you know actually I do have PMS! I'm due to start maybe tomorrow or Tuesday. Wow and to think my epiphany was just hormones. Man those things are useful!
- superflit 14y agoNothing to be ashamed, everyone has bad days. But please DO NOT downplay hormones effect on behaviour. People with Thyroid or other hormones misbalance will disagree.
- LispIsForLosers 14y agoWrite hysterical post, get accused of hysteria. That's how it works.
- superflit 14y agoWhy it cannot be all options, the world is not a binary choice. It is not good or bad..black or white
- kintamanimatt 14y agoThis is so thoroughly inappropriate. Sexism, like any form of prejudice, has no place in the tech world.
- superflit 14y agoAgreed! If was a man I would said: 'Someone had a bad day' or 'Did not get enough sleep'. I agree that in one 'sexist' MINE I was referring about some biological (true or not) facts and other (man related) I was referencing to situational (sleep?day). And If I say to man: 'Hey someone has its level of testosterone TOO high' there is a great chance he will see that as compliment..
- iosnoob 14y agoThanks for the blog post and valid point of view. Couple of suggestions on your business: - I couldn't find your site by googling play api. I think that's a pretty bad situation for prospective investors - your logo is one of the most unreadable ones I've come across - your title is very broad and not sure who its targeted at. How about something simpler like "create multiplatform branded games in seconds" Good luck.
- Redoubtable 14y agoThanks!
- Morcane 14y agoPlayApi. Click 'Get Started'. Yeah! Obligatory signup form, to 'request an audience^H^H^H^H^Hdemo'. See ya.
- LispIsForLosers 14y agoI've been reading Hacker News since 2007. This is the single most worthless post to ever grace the frontpage. Everyone here should think long and hard about what can be done to prevent a community from degenerating to the point where it is colonized by trivial attention whoring. In fact, whoever thinks hardest might just make the next billion dollars.
- unimpressive 14y agoWhat was second?
- 0xABADC0DA 14y agoAnd you're reading Hacker News why? I knew I would get hellbanned eventually for not being in the clique, but I didn't expect it from a +6 point comment. This community is a definition of degenerate.
- joelmichael 14y agoYou are right, and thank you for writing this. Our company agreed early on that tech interest wasn't essential for the success of our business. However, I do think it can be useful for finding engineering talent.
- benzesandbetter 14y agoStop worrying about what other people think, and focus on making a great product or service. If you make something great, people will want a piece of it no matter if they like you personally or not. Also, getting all emo and throwing a public temper tantrum railing against the people whose help you might need someday isn't doing you any favors. Get back to work.
- Redoubtable 14y agoYou got it. :-) Though I admit I wasn't quite expecting a personal Tumblr post to make it to Hacker News.
- nswanberg 14y agoThis interview with Girl Talk [1] posted on the thread about Wanz [2] shows, to an outsider, a lot of parallels between the music and startup scenes. This is likely to have been raised before, but the two are similar in many ways: vast and fragmented with many paths to and definitions of success, prone to fads, full of both hard workers and poseurs, controlled near the top by gatekeepers who pride themselves, correctly or not, on evaluating potential success, jealousy of success, rules that apply to the majority of aspirants and smaller players but not the minority of the very successful, people who look with disdain at others' choices, seeing those choices as more important than they really are, etc. So it is good to realize that, just as in music, success is context-dependent, and one's popularity with the current stars and hangers-on is a weak indicator of success, and it's good to act on that realization in a useful way, including planting a stake in the ground saying "I'm done with that." That said, once one's self-confidence and happiness are restored it's also good to not completely reject all aspects of whatever and whoever are popular. Unless someone is a close competitor (in which case they must be crushed or scared off to other pastures ;) ), why not wish for their success and celebrate it? Similarly, conferences are a great way to learn, to teach, and to meet those with the same interests, and so long as attending the conference is not only about being seen by others as attending a conference (or, say, being invited to a panel), and going does not interfere with work, why shouldn't one go? [1] http://pitchfork.com/features/interviews/6415-girl-talk/ http://pitchfork.com/features/interviews/6415-girl-talk/ [2] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5235168 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5235168
- te_chris 14y agoI live in both worlds and it's funny, bar the obvious differences in technical skills, there are far more similarities, especially with regard to your second paragraph.
- cerebrum 14y agoGreat article but I'm kinda sad that it missed drawing the bigger point: the dichotomy perceived value vs. actual value goes much beyond products and companies; it's something that permeates our entire lives as social animals.
- dreadsword 14y agoAny second wasted to popularity, either seeking it, or decrying it, is a wasted second. Enough navel gazing, create some lasting value and reap the rewards.
- stcredzero 14y ago> Because as it turns out the market for being an “it” founder and a flavor of the week startup isn’t the reality market. It is the perception market. Perception Market. Also known as a "reputation bubble." (Anyone know where the original "reputation bubble" article went? I've been trying fancy tricks with Google, but getting nowhere. The fashion industry and the "it" girl supermodel are prime examples in the article.)
- calinet6 14y agoGet out of the hellacious Silicon Valley and move to Boston. You'll like it better.
- knieveltech 14y agoLost it at "Liked by the kind of men that determine who is or is not “one of us” in tech.". Silicon valley culture is almost, but not quite, entirely irrelevant to the overwhelming majority of "techs". The number of people active in that scene represent a rounding error compared to the rest of the people working in industry in technical roles outside of the valley. Get out of the echo chamber.
- davemel37 14y agoI found the old maxim to be true, "Chase after honor, and honor runs away from you. Run away from honor, and honor chases after you."
- ahoyhere 14y agoBelieve it or not, what follows is meant to be a SUPPORTIVE comment. > I wanted to be one of those founders, you know, the type that gets silly valuations and love from the name brand ventures firms, the type that gets written up by the tech press, the sort that powerful angels vouch for and send around glowing intros for as being “the next big thing,” and the sort that jets around to conferences. I truly hope you've come away from all this and understood that the problem isn't 'them,' it's you. Once you focus on identity — worse yet, how others perceive your identity — then it's just a hop, skip and jump to narcissism, when 90% of your effort and emotions is about projecting and protecting your identity at the sacrifice of making things happen, or worse yet, forming relationships. It SOUNDS like you figured that out. On the other hand, since you've already found yourself vulnerable to identity focus, you should watch yourself and make sure this "I Don't Care!" thing isn't a new way to form a (fragile) identity in need of propagation and defense. Focusing on other people, and your work, is the way to avoid this trap.
- Redoubtable 14y agoThanks for this! The fact that I got wrapped up in constructing the identity of a company (thank god not the actual product or how we related to our clients) to be appealing to someone that wasn't its core client was definitely my problem and not theirs! While I can't deny that I was responding to a certain kind of risk/reward perception that has a certain value it wasn't right for what we ultimately wanted to build as a company. And I think this happens in so many areas of life. How we date, how we pick our hobbies, how we choose our education. Because forming a core identity and a core business is actually tremendously hard. Picking up one that is already socially validated seems easier. It just isn't a recipe for long term happiness or success.
- subsystem 14y agoFiona Apple said it best :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSLwYrPbuts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSLwYrPbuts
- ahoyhere 14y ago> Because forming a core identity and a core business is actually tremendously hard. Picking up one that is already socially validated seems easier. Truth.
- michaelochurch 14y agoVC-istan isn't "technology". It's cutting-edge marketing, and only as technological as it needs to be in order to not look foolish in 2013. It took me a few years to understand that, if only because the disinvestment of our society in R&D, academia, and anything with a focus longer than one quarter has reached such completion as to leave our society too imbecilic to have a square sense of what technology even is. That doesn't mean a company can't be technological and VC-funded, but the "cool kids" sideshow isn't about true technology. It can't be. The VPs and Product Managers are all imbeciles and the engineers, while smart in an IQ-sense, are too steeped in bad practices to know anything. (The Founders are talented marketers but 80% are sociopaths.) The VC-istan "It" crowd is not comprised of technologists, but of people who've found it advantageous to incorporate technological fetishism into their vapid marketing. The jokers in the in-crowd don't know anything, and the best technologists only tag along to their projects if they can get something out of it... and those sorts of managerial conditions (hands-off management, high autonomy, interesting projects and self-direction) don't tend to last for long.
- justin_vanw 14y agoApparently she doesn't care about 5000 words.
- bluekeybox 14y ago"It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both." -- Machieavelli
- coliolio 14y agoI really wish the author would even once mention _how_ she was warping herself/her company to impress the tech crowd. It's hard for me to understand what she's complaining about without a single example of the type of "how to be popular" advice that people were giving her that she found so poisonous...