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The university this guy works for (The PLA Information Engineering University) has a military background. And in China this means the teachers and many of the s

The university this guy works for (The PLA Information Engineering University) has a military background. And in China this means the teachers and many of the students are literally military personnel.

druiid 14y ago
Well, it just goes to show what most people know already: That there is a vast campaign by the Chinese government to carry out hacks on foreign (and internal sometimes I bet) targets. Basically, the thing I took away from the article is that it's so wide at this point that no matter the hacker there that you cast your net toward, it probably leads back to the government. In most other countries I imagine that most of the hackers are either third-party actors (selling what they got for cash or simply stealing cash), or random 'kids' hacking for fun/profit.
- bediger4000 14y ago
  Is "The Chinese Government" that monolithic? It's a People's Liberation Army university. In many countries (memorably, the Soviet Union) the army was a semi-independent entity, with goals of its own. Is this true in China? If so, why go around decrying "Chinese hacking" when you should decry "PLA Hacking"?
  - qschneier 14y ago
    The ruler in China is a trinity: the government, the army and the communist party. Though with the "economic reform" and the unstoppable information flow with internet, China has become something really weird unlike anyone else in the history. Nobody believes in communism and everybody knows the government is lying all the time and yet just lives with it. Every activity by the government is for money and mostly quick money (for the officials). I don't even think the hackers in this matter care much for the information. They may just try to get more funds from the government. Sometimes they even frame somebody or fake a threats to get the money. The funds will always be granted in such a situation because "if you don't grant you put the country in danger" and "if you grant you can take the commissions". Most of the time every bit of it is simply dirty corrupted business. Many of the officials' children are permanent residents in the US. Some of them are even already citizens.
- toyg 14y ago
  > In most other countries I imagine that most of the hackers are either third-party actors [...] or random 'kids' Let's say this hypothesis is true; we should then deduce that the Chinese government is years (decades?) ahead of "developed" countries in terms of information warfare. It's quite a worrying thought. Let's say that your hypothesis is actually false: this would mean that there is an ongoing similarly-sized info-warfare effort waged by the US government (at least), but we rarely hear about it. Again quite a worrying thought.
  - kevin_rubyhouse 14y ago
    My thoughts exactly. The US probably has a just as big or more sophisticated organization of hackers and cyber warriors. It's fantastic and also overlooked when talking about Chinese cyber espionage. Much talk seems so one sided, but it's hard to objectively talk about without knowing what the American cyber warriors have been up to. I'll take it as a sign that they're doing a good job and not getting caught. Furthermore, I take comfort in the fact that there are slim chances that the US and China would actually go to physical war with each other. I want to end up working with China in the future, not necessarily against them.
    - cerebrum 14y ago
      > The US probably has a just as big or more sophisticated organization of hackers and cyber warriors. It's called the NSA.
    - qschneier 14y ago
      China will certainly won't start a war against the US. There is actually a joke in China saying that if US wants to delay any high level government meetings they can just ask the US schools to have a mandatory parents meeting. And then many of those who in control of China will just fly over because they care about their children as much as other ordinary parents if not more. And the US will certainly won't start the war either, because you can hardly find someone else who keep lending you money almost unconditionally.

druiid 14y ago

Well, it just goes to show what most people know already: That there is a vast campaign by the Chinese government to carry out hacks on foreign (and internal sometimes I bet) targets. Basically, the thing I took away from the article is that it's so wide at this point that no matter the hacker there that you cast your net toward, it probably leads back to the government. In most other countries I imagine that most of the hackers are either third-party actors (selling what they got for cash or simply stealing cash), or random 'kids' hacking for fun/profit.

bediger4000 14y ago
Is "The Chinese Government" that monolithic? It's a People's Liberation Army university. In many countries (memorably, the Soviet Union) the army was a semi-independent entity, with goals of its own. Is this true in China? If so, why go around decrying "Chinese hacking" when you should decry "PLA Hacking"?
- qschneier 14y ago
  The ruler in China is a trinity: the government, the army and the communist party. Though with the "economic reform" and the unstoppable information flow with internet, China has become something really weird unlike anyone else in the history. Nobody believes in communism and everybody knows the government is lying all the time and yet just lives with it. Every activity by the government is for money and mostly quick money (for the officials). I don't even think the hackers in this matter care much for the information. They may just try to get more funds from the government. Sometimes they even frame somebody or fake a threats to get the money. The funds will always be granted in such a situation because "if you don't grant you put the country in danger" and "if you grant you can take the commissions". Most of the time every bit of it is simply dirty corrupted business. Many of the officials' children are permanent residents in the US. Some of them are even already citizens.
toyg 14y ago
> In most other countries I imagine that most of the hackers are either third-party actors [...] or random 'kids' Let's say this hypothesis is true; we should then deduce that the Chinese government is years (decades?) ahead of "developed" countries in terms of information warfare. It's quite a worrying thought. Let's say that your hypothesis is actually false: this would mean that there is an ongoing similarly-sized info-warfare effort waged by the US government (at least), but we rarely hear about it. Again quite a worrying thought.
- kevin_rubyhouse 14y ago
  My thoughts exactly. The US probably has a just as big or more sophisticated organization of hackers and cyber warriors. It's fantastic and also overlooked when talking about Chinese cyber espionage. Much talk seems so one sided, but it's hard to objectively talk about without knowing what the American cyber warriors have been up to. I'll take it as a sign that they're doing a good job and not getting caught. Furthermore, I take comfort in the fact that there are slim chances that the US and China would actually go to physical war with each other. I want to end up working with China in the future, not necessarily against them.
  - cerebrum 14y ago
    > The US probably has a just as big or more sophisticated organization of hackers and cyber warriors. It's called the NSA.
  - qschneier 14y ago
    China will certainly won't start a war against the US. There is actually a joke in China saying that if US wants to delay any high level government meetings they can just ask the US schools to have a mandatory parents meeting. And then many of those who in control of China will just fly over because they care about their children as much as other ordinary parents if not more. And the US will certainly won't start the war either, because you can hardly find someone else who keep lending you money almost unconditionally.