6 ms·

PayMill. Is it really a clone of Stripe?

72 points by Rulero 14y ago

tobiasbischoff 14y ago
It's them same with Samwers clone of Square, Payleven. They send you a cardreader immediatly but before you can use it you have to sign 5 different paperworks and wait for approvals. Just sad and the reason iZettle is still the only Square-a-like in Europe.
- weitzj 14y ago
  Or sumup
samwillis 14y ago
I looked in to Pay Mill a few months ago when I was setting up my website. Being in the UK we couldn't use stripe and so it initialy looked like a good option but then when you dig into it you find its no different than a merchant account. Ultimately I went with paypal as I could set it up quickly and then move to another option later on when the idea is validated. We are now raman profitable and so when stripe launches over here i will probably move to it but if it doesn't we are now in a position with trading history to get a merchant account.
- Rulero 14y ago
  I feel your pain. I don't know if this helps but if you really require card processing facilities you should consider other merchant banks as opposed to the high-street ones which are willing to take more risks. I have had a few successful applications for organisations with no trading history on FDMS (First Data Merchant Services). GoCardless seems like a great option but I just don't see it working on B2C websites. On the other hand, B2B seems very feasible.
- lucian1900 14y ago
  Braintree may be a viable option for you. GitHub are using them, for example.
- ig1 14y ago
  Stripe is apparently in private beta in the UK now, I'm guessing they're going make their formal announcement at the talk their giving at the London Web Summit in a few weeks.
skrebbel 14y ago
I'm very interested in more stories here. Do people on HN share the OP's experiences with Paymill? Anyone working at Paymill reading this? I know Paymill is one of Rocket Internet's many "ripoffs" of successful US companies, but as a European I really don't care about that. They executed on Zalando real well, I've no reason at all to assume that they'd not execute well on Paymill. Or, well, I had no reason to assume so until this article.
- Kliment 14y ago
  I did the required paperwork stuff before writing any code. They called me when I signed up, told me about the service and what documents they needed. It took me an hour to fill out the forms, and once I sent it it took them two days to activate the account. Later on, they had me fill in another form from some industry compliance organization, with super-cryptic and confusing stuff on it. They sent me a sample form with the correct data filled in and told me how much they hated that their customers had to do that. They've been paying me every week without issues. Haven't had to do any other paperwork since. On the first day I accepted payments, their acquiring bank emailed me to verify the addresses of several customers because they had cards issued by high-fraud banks. They all checked out, and I haven't heard from them either since. From my POV Paymill's execution is excellent, and they ANSWER THEIR PHONE immediately if I need them, and solve stuff right away (I haven't needed to do that in a long time)
- georgespencer 14y ago
  There was a post on LRUG a few days ago about a user integrating with PayMill only to find that customer banks were declining charges via Paymill for "trust" issues.
- peterjancelis 14y ago
  I didn't realize Zalando was a Rocket Internet company. I see their ads on Belgian television all the time (a very good, funny ad). I agree with you - as a European I don't care about it being a clone, at least they make an effort to serve my market.
dewey 14y ago
The site in the OP is not accessible right now, but by reading the other comments I assume it's about the paperwork you have to go through after you signed up for PayMill. My experience is that it takes an hour to sign up, then they'll send you some papers to sign and you are good to go and ready to accept payments. Then a month later you'll get an email telling you to go through a certification done by a third-party. You'll have to download a .rtf with about 20 pages, formatted in a horrible way and go through the answers with no real guidance. You don't have to fill in a lot of information if you are using PayMill because you are not actually storing any sensitive information on your servers. That's not really PayMill's fault because it's required by law but it's _very_ annoying and I had to resubmit it twice because I missed some fields (Which isn't really that surprising if you look at the way the document is designed). A few weeks later I had to go through another verification required by EU's money laundering laws. But it was basically just signing a document at the post office so they can verify it with your passport. Edit: I have to add that PayMill's Support Staff is brilliant and they really care about their customers. They probably hate the required paperwork as much as we do.
- Kliment 14y ago
  About the annoying document, they sent me a sample one with all the required fields filled in so I just had to change company name and dates.
jokull 14y ago
Just adding a datapoint. I went through the verification and it was annoying to print, fill out, scan and send but not that horrible. The staff was helpful and followed through with the whole process. They even rang me up at one point because there weren’t any transactions coming through to see if I needed any help with the software end of things (that wasn’t the case, but nice to know they care).
- CarlHoerberg 14y ago
  exactly my experience too
bencevans 14y ago
Site's taking ages to load, so here's the google cache http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tBHXw_PrE_cJ:notes.prashant.es/post/paymill.-is-it-really-a-clone-of-stripe+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tBHXw_P...
- dewey 14y ago
  Thanks! Now that I have read the article I think it's not really fair to compare payment providers working under EU jurisdiction and US jurisdiction. If it'd be easy to just skip the paperwork in the EU I'm pretty sure Stripe would've just rolled out their services in Europe in the first place.
  - Rulero 14y ago
    Why not? PayMill is supposed to be a clone of Stripe, therefore, I expect instant activation. If you can't offer instant activation (Due to regulations and jurisdictions), don't be misleading with your marketing communications. Let the consumers know the real deal. Simple.
    - dewey 14y ago
      "What’s more, we normally validate all of the necessary customer documents within just 48 hours. However, in order for you to start working right away, you will receive an individual test key from us directly after you register. This will allow you to integrate Paymill even while the contracts are still being processed." They never said they are a Stripe clone, and if you are expecting that they are one with the exact same features ("instant activation") just because they are selling the same product that's not really their fault isn't it? They are basically saying that normally you are up and running within 48 hours and that's the case if you are not rejected. So what's misleading about that?
      - Rulero 14y ago
        Actually, that statement doesn't say anything about being rejected. In fact, it is phrased in such a way that induces you to believe that after 48 hours, your account will be "processed" or "functional".
rmoriz 14y ago
PayMill data could be used by the Samwers to cough identify cough trends and interesting business ideas
onemorepassword 14y ago
I don't really see the point of a European Stripe clone, since in Europe we're dealing with a completely different set of problems when it comes to online payment. In many countries it's relatively painless if not trivial to set up a merchant account and start accepting payments through one of the many payment service providers, so for the internal market a Stripe-like service doesn't offer much of an advantage over tried and trusted local services. If you want to accept payments across Europe, especially the many local direct payment solutions which are often much more popular than credit cards (and Paymill doesn't support any of them), you'll run into a whole different class of problems which any service will have a hard time solving. But if you want to disrupt the European online payment market, then that's the problem to solve.
- Kliment 14y ago
  This is not true. Before Paymill came along, I had no reasonable (not involved with going through huge amounts of paperwork and diligence just to get a price quote) way of taking payments in Germany. Merchant accounts are a pain. They are most definitely neither painless nor trivial. I hear it's better in the UK, but for me the only reasonable alternative was PayPal, who have strongly negative trust in my book. Paymill made it possible for me to take credit cards at all. As of recently they also support the most popular local direct payment method in Germany. Given how quickly they spread from DE only to most of Europe, I expect they'll support other local payment methods eventually, but I honestly don't care much. Being able to take credit card payments is already a huge, huge step.
  - sdepablos 14y ago
    And at least here in Spain you should not forget the TERRIBLE way of integrating payments in your site if you're not PCI compliant. When you try to pay you end up in a ugly POS terminal that with some browsers shows misleading JS alerts when you click on the pay button.
- lucian1900 14y ago
  There's still the problem of EU companies wanting to take payments from all over the world.
yakshay 14y ago
PayMill doesn't have a credit card vault. So it can never be or provide the same features as Stripe. However that is planned for mid this year.
zakshay 14y ago
PayMill doesn't have a credit card vault. So it can never be or provide the same features as Stripe.
jamesmoss 14y ago
I've been looking at using Paymill for an upcoming side project but now I think I might just use Braintree instead after reading this article. The purported lack of paperwork was a big selling point for me but if if this article is true (as well as other comments on here) then it's a big turn off.
- CarlHoerberg 14y ago
  the paymill paperwork is minimal. braintree wants a lot more papers (https://www.braintreepayments.com/tour/international https://www.braintreepayments.com/tour/international) and has som hefty upfront costs.
  - Silhouette 14y ago
    Yes, Braintree's initial paperwork is a PITA, at least as bad as any other payment gateway/merchant account set-up we've seen. And actually their fees can work out very high as well in the early days, because they have a minimum level each month whether you take any payments or not. We're still looking into them because their terms don't seem to have any of the abusive conditions that we would never sign and their reputation for good customer service is attractive, but they are very far from ideal.
cocoflunchy 14y ago
OP should really consider writing larger and allow zoom!. Luckily there's still Readability... Edit: well I'm not sure what just happened, but the whole layout has changed... everything is good now.
- lobster_johnson 14y ago
  Zooming that site is still not working for me in Chrome.
smagch 14y ago
As for Japanese Stripe clone, webpay is literary a clone. They offer using stripe gem for accessing their API. https://github.com/keikubo/webpay-ruby https://github.com/keikubo/webpay-ruby
- revelation 14y ago
  The fact that they offer the same API does not make them a clone and a recent ruling between Oracle and Google would even suggest it's not a copyright issue. Theres also an exception in the DMCA that allows reverse engineering for purposes of interoperability (IANAL).
mikeseeh 14y ago
Read the general terms and you know why your client was rejected. You wrote it's a 'dating website' and according to the terms 'Partner negotiations of any kind' are not allowed.
- Rulero 14y ago
  Interesting. Although I don't see how a dating site is partner negotiation, you're simply paying a subscription for a service which allows you to browse members. You're not paying for the relationship or negotiating on it. Something which might have been relevant which I didn't add was my client wasn't provided a reason for rejection. They simply stated "Our acquiring bank will not consider your application". He attempted to follow up, but still no reason was supplied.
- jusben1369 14y ago
  You've hit the nail on the head. We're in the payments space and folks in the payment space know that dating sites have a very difficult time with merchant accounts. I do agree that PayMill may want to call this out more and it's frustrating for the developer. I wonder though if the owners of the site weren't aware of this.
jtdowney 14y ago
One thing the article mentions that is not correct is that "there's no need to be PCI Compliant as Stripe handles this whole process for you." While it is true that Stripe bundles the merchant account, you do still need to be PCI compliant. They even say as much in their Terms of Service (section 8): "You agree that at all times you shall be compliant with the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standards (PCI-DSS) and the Payment Application Data Security Standards (PA-DSS), as applicable." It is very dangerous to think that just because you use a service you are not responsible for PCI compliance. Any business that accepts credit card payments needs to be sure and research what their exact relationship is with PCI. (Disclosure, I work for Braintree)
- dave_sullivan 14y ago
  Can you give an example of what specific considerations need to be taken into account re: pci compliance and stripe? My understanding is that there are more stringent requirements if storing CC numbers, and using stripe helps to shift that burden. Are there any other major non-obvious (eg, using ssl) considerations re: pci compliance if using stripe to handle recurring billing?
  - sdepablos 14y ago
    Taking a look to https://support.stripe.com/questions/what-exactly-do-i-need-to-do-on-my-end-for-pci-compliance-through-stripe https://support.stripe.com/questions/what-exactly-do-i-need-... it looks like you only need to use stripe.js and SSL and you're ok.
    - thehammer 14y ago
      Regulations are set by the card brands, not the gateways. Here are Visa's requirements for merchants that want to accept their cards: http://usa.visa.com/merchants/risk_management/cisp_merchants.html http://usa.visa.com/merchants/risk_management/cisp_merchants... Requirements scale with processing volume, and are generally minimal for merchants processing under 20k Visa transactions annually. Many gateways use tokenization to dramatically reduce PCI scope for their merchants. It's fairly standard, actually. Even with tokenization, merchants have compliance obligations. The required network scans, for example, protect consumers from merchant websites being compromised ahead of the tokenization step.
calpaterson 14y ago
This is similar to the issue I had with Paymill. Their bank seems to turn down applications because of a lack of trading history or because you can't meet some strange German legal requirement.
d0mme 14y ago
As I'm a member from the dev team and have read this article and following discussions, we will write tomorrow a blog post regarding concerning issues the OP mentioned. There are really some fair points of critics, which we should consider thoroughly and change for the future. A more detailled answer tomorrow. Best, Dominic
- tpsc 14y ago
  Still waiting...
  - d0mme 14y ago
    sorry for the waiting, here it is: https://blog.paymill.com/2013/02/25/customer-feedback-on-our-service/ https://blog.paymill.com/2013/02/25/customer-feedback-on-our...
crazygringo 14y ago
Ugh. With tiny 12px text, the blog has zooming disabled for Webkit browsers, even desktop ones, by specifying: -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; That's a horrible bug and makes it practically unreadable. EDIT: never mind, apparently it was fixed in the meantime.
sdepablos 14y ago
I think Paymill would be a good alternative for us Europeans if not for the pricing. 2.95% + 0.28€ for transaction is really bad if you work with low margins and far far worse what we get working directly with our bank (and don't forget you only see your money once a week).
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
d0mme 14y ago
Thanks to everyone for feedback, we really appreciate your input! We have compiled a blog post to answer your questions: https://blog.paymill.com/2013/02/25/customer-feedback-on-our-service/ https://blog.paymill.com/2013/02/25/customer-feedback-on-our... Best, Dominic

72 points by Rulero 14y ago

It's them same with Samwers clone of Square, Payleven. They send you a cardreader immediatly but before you can use it you have to sign 5 different paperworks and wait for approvals. Just sad and the reason iZettle is still the only Square-a-like in Europe.

weitzj 14y ago
Or sumup

samwillis 14y ago

I looked in to Pay Mill a few months ago when I was setting up my website. Being in the UK we couldn't use stripe and so it initialy looked like a good option but then when you dig into it you find its no different than a merchant account. Ultimately I went with paypal as I could set it up quickly and then move to another option later on when the idea is validated. We are now raman profitable and so when stripe launches over here i will probably move to it but if it doesn't we are now in a position with trading history to get a merchant account.

Rulero 14y ago
I feel your pain. I don't know if this helps but if you really require card processing facilities you should consider other merchant banks as opposed to the high-street ones which are willing to take more risks. I have had a few successful applications for organisations with no trading history on FDMS (First Data Merchant Services). GoCardless seems like a great option but I just don't see it working on B2C websites. On the other hand, B2B seems very feasible.
lucian1900 14y ago
Braintree may be a viable option for you. GitHub are using them, for example.
ig1 14y ago
Stripe is apparently in private beta in the UK now, I'm guessing they're going make their formal announcement at the talk their giving at the London Web Summit in a few weeks.

skrebbel 14y ago

I'm very interested in more stories here. Do people on HN share the OP's experiences with Paymill? Anyone working at Paymill reading this? I know Paymill is one of Rocket Internet's many "ripoffs" of successful US companies, but as a European I really don't care about that. They executed on Zalando real well, I've no reason at all to assume that they'd not execute well on Paymill. Or, well, I had no reason to assume so until this article.

Kliment 14y ago
I did the required paperwork stuff before writing any code. They called me when I signed up, told me about the service and what documents they needed. It took me an hour to fill out the forms, and once I sent it it took them two days to activate the account. Later on, they had me fill in another form from some industry compliance organization, with super-cryptic and confusing stuff on it. They sent me a sample form with the correct data filled in and told me how much they hated that their customers had to do that. They've been paying me every week without issues. Haven't had to do any other paperwork since. On the first day I accepted payments, their acquiring bank emailed me to verify the addresses of several customers because they had cards issued by high-fraud banks. They all checked out, and I haven't heard from them either since. From my POV Paymill's execution is excellent, and they ANSWER THEIR PHONE immediately if I need them, and solve stuff right away (I haven't needed to do that in a long time)
georgespencer 14y ago
There was a post on LRUG a few days ago about a user integrating with PayMill only to find that customer banks were declining charges via Paymill for "trust" issues.
peterjancelis 14y ago
I didn't realize Zalando was a Rocket Internet company. I see their ads on Belgian television all the time (a very good, funny ad). I agree with you - as a European I don't care about it being a clone, at least they make an effort to serve my market.

dewey 14y ago

The site in the OP is not accessible right now, but by reading the other comments I assume it's about the paperwork you have to go through after you signed up for PayMill. My experience is that it takes an hour to sign up, then they'll send you some papers to sign and you are good to go and ready to accept payments. Then a month later you'll get an email telling you to go through a certification done by a third-party. You'll have to download a .rtf with about 20 pages, formatted in a horrible way and go through the answers with no real guidance. You don't have to fill in a lot of information if you are using PayMill because you are not actually storing any sensitive information on your servers. That's not really PayMill's fault because it's required by law but it's _very_ annoying and I had to resubmit it twice because I missed some fields (Which isn't really that surprising if you look at the way the document is designed). A few weeks later I had to go through another verification required by EU's money laundering laws. But it was basically just signing a document at the post office so they can verify it with your passport. Edit: I have to add that PayMill's Support Staff is brilliant and they really care about their customers. They probably hate the required paperwork as much as we do.

Kliment 14y ago
About the annoying document, they sent me a sample one with all the required fields filled in so I just had to change company name and dates.

jokull 14y ago

Just adding a datapoint. I went through the verification and it was annoying to print, fill out, scan and send but not that horrible. The staff was helpful and followed through with the whole process. They even rang me up at one point because there weren’t any transactions coming through to see if I needed any help with the software end of things (that wasn’t the case, but nice to know they care).

CarlHoerberg 14y ago
exactly my experience too

bencevans 14y ago

Site's taking ages to load, so here's the google cache http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tBHXw_PrE_cJ:notes.prashant.es/post/paymill.-is-it-really-a-clone-of-stripe+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tBHXw_P...

dewey 14y ago
Thanks! Now that I have read the article I think it's not really fair to compare payment providers working under EU jurisdiction and US jurisdiction. If it'd be easy to just skip the paperwork in the EU I'm pretty sure Stripe would've just rolled out their services in Europe in the first place.
- Rulero 14y ago
  Why not? PayMill is supposed to be a clone of Stripe, therefore, I expect instant activation. If you can't offer instant activation (Due to regulations and jurisdictions), don't be misleading with your marketing communications. Let the consumers know the real deal. Simple.
  - dewey 14y ago
    "What’s more, we normally validate all of the necessary customer documents within just 48 hours. However, in order for you to start working right away, you will receive an individual test key from us directly after you register. This will allow you to integrate Paymill even while the contracts are still being processed." They never said they are a Stripe clone, and if you are expecting that they are one with the exact same features ("instant activation") just because they are selling the same product that's not really their fault isn't it? They are basically saying that normally you are up and running within 48 hours and that's the case if you are not rejected. So what's misleading about that?
    - Rulero 14y ago
      Actually, that statement doesn't say anything about being rejected. In fact, it is phrased in such a way that induces you to believe that after 48 hours, your account will be "processed" or "functional".

rmoriz 14y ago

PayMill data could be used by the Samwers to cough identify cough trends and interesting business ideas

onemorepassword 14y ago

I don't really see the point of a European Stripe clone, since in Europe we're dealing with a completely different set of problems when it comes to online payment. In many countries it's relatively painless if not trivial to set up a merchant account and start accepting payments through one of the many payment service providers, so for the internal market a Stripe-like service doesn't offer much of an advantage over tried and trusted local services. If you want to accept payments across Europe, especially the many local direct payment solutions which are often much more popular than credit cards (and Paymill doesn't support any of them), you'll run into a whole different class of problems which any service will have a hard time solving. But if you want to disrupt the European online payment market, then that's the problem to solve.

Kliment 14y ago
This is not true. Before Paymill came along, I had no reasonable (not involved with going through huge amounts of paperwork and diligence just to get a price quote) way of taking payments in Germany. Merchant accounts are a pain. They are most definitely neither painless nor trivial. I hear it's better in the UK, but for me the only reasonable alternative was PayPal, who have strongly negative trust in my book. Paymill made it possible for me to take credit cards at all. As of recently they also support the most popular local direct payment method in Germany. Given how quickly they spread from DE only to most of Europe, I expect they'll support other local payment methods eventually, but I honestly don't care much. Being able to take credit card payments is already a huge, huge step.
- sdepablos 14y ago
  And at least here in Spain you should not forget the TERRIBLE way of integrating payments in your site if you're not PCI compliant. When you try to pay you end up in a ugly POS terminal that with some browsers shows misleading JS alerts when you click on the pay button.
lucian1900 14y ago
There's still the problem of EU companies wanting to take payments from all over the world.

yakshay 14y ago

PayMill doesn't have a credit card vault. So it can never be or provide the same features as Stripe. However that is planned for mid this year.

zakshay 14y ago

PayMill doesn't have a credit card vault. So it can never be or provide the same features as Stripe.

jamesmoss 14y ago

I've been looking at using Paymill for an upcoming side project but now I think I might just use Braintree instead after reading this article. The purported lack of paperwork was a big selling point for me but if if this article is true (as well as other comments on here) then it's a big turn off.

CarlHoerberg 14y ago
the paymill paperwork is minimal. braintree wants a lot more papers (https://www.braintreepayments.com/tour/international https://www.braintreepayments.com/tour/international) and has som hefty upfront costs.
- Silhouette 14y ago
  Yes, Braintree's initial paperwork is a PITA, at least as bad as any other payment gateway/merchant account set-up we've seen. And actually their fees can work out very high as well in the early days, because they have a minimum level each month whether you take any payments or not. We're still looking into them because their terms don't seem to have any of the abusive conditions that we would never sign and their reputation for good customer service is attractive, but they are very far from ideal.

cocoflunchy 14y ago

OP should really consider writing larger and allow zoom!. Luckily there's still Readability... Edit: well I'm not sure what just happened, but the whole layout has changed... everything is good now.

lobster_johnson 14y ago
Zooming that site is still not working for me in Chrome.

smagch 14y ago

As for Japanese Stripe clone, webpay is literary a clone. They offer using stripe gem for accessing their API. https://github.com/keikubo/webpay-ruby https://github.com/keikubo/webpay-ruby

revelation 14y ago
The fact that they offer the same API does not make them a clone and a recent ruling between Oracle and Google would even suggest it's not a copyright issue. Theres also an exception in the DMCA that allows reverse engineering for purposes of interoperability (IANAL).

mikeseeh 14y ago

Read the general terms and you know why your client was rejected. You wrote it's a 'dating website' and according to the terms 'Partner negotiations of any kind' are not allowed.

Rulero 14y ago
Interesting. Although I don't see how a dating site is partner negotiation, you're simply paying a subscription for a service which allows you to browse members. You're not paying for the relationship or negotiating on it. Something which might have been relevant which I didn't add was my client wasn't provided a reason for rejection. They simply stated "Our acquiring bank will not consider your application". He attempted to follow up, but still no reason was supplied.
jusben1369 14y ago
You've hit the nail on the head. We're in the payments space and folks in the payment space know that dating sites have a very difficult time with merchant accounts. I do agree that PayMill may want to call this out more and it's frustrating for the developer. I wonder though if the owners of the site weren't aware of this.

jtdowney 14y ago

One thing the article mentions that is not correct is that "there's no need to be PCI Compliant as Stripe handles this whole process for you." While it is true that Stripe bundles the merchant account, you do still need to be PCI compliant. They even say as much in their Terms of Service (section 8): "You agree that at all times you shall be compliant with the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standards (PCI-DSS) and the Payment Application Data Security Standards (PA-DSS), as applicable." It is very dangerous to think that just because you use a service you are not responsible for PCI compliance. Any business that accepts credit card payments needs to be sure and research what their exact relationship is with PCI. (Disclosure, I work for Braintree)

dave_sullivan 14y ago
Can you give an example of what specific considerations need to be taken into account re: pci compliance and stripe? My understanding is that there are more stringent requirements if storing CC numbers, and using stripe helps to shift that burden. Are there any other major non-obvious (eg, using ssl) considerations re: pci compliance if using stripe to handle recurring billing?
- sdepablos 14y ago
  Taking a look to https://support.stripe.com/questions/what-exactly-do-i-need-to-do-on-my-end-for-pci-compliance-through-stripe https://support.stripe.com/questions/what-exactly-do-i-need-... it looks like you only need to use stripe.js and SSL and you're ok.
  - thehammer 14y ago
    Regulations are set by the card brands, not the gateways. Here are Visa's requirements for merchants that want to accept their cards: http://usa.visa.com/merchants/risk_management/cisp_merchants.html http://usa.visa.com/merchants/risk_management/cisp_merchants... Requirements scale with processing volume, and are generally minimal for merchants processing under 20k Visa transactions annually. Many gateways use tokenization to dramatically reduce PCI scope for their merchants. It's fairly standard, actually. Even with tokenization, merchants have compliance obligations. The required network scans, for example, protect consumers from merchant websites being compromised ahead of the tokenization step.

calpaterson 14y ago

This is similar to the issue I had with Paymill. Their bank seems to turn down applications because of a lack of trading history or because you can't meet some strange German legal requirement.

d0mme 14y ago

As I'm a member from the dev team and have read this article and following discussions, we will write tomorrow a blog post regarding concerning issues the OP mentioned. There are really some fair points of critics, which we should consider thoroughly and change for the future. A more detailled answer tomorrow. Best, Dominic

tpsc 14y ago
Still waiting...
- d0mme 14y ago
  sorry for the waiting, here it is: https://blog.paymill.com/2013/02/25/customer-feedback-on-our-service/ https://blog.paymill.com/2013/02/25/customer-feedback-on-our...

crazygringo 14y ago

Ugh. With tiny 12px text, the blog has zooming disabled for Webkit browsers, even desktop ones, by specifying: -webkit-text-size-adjust: none; That's a horrible bug and makes it practically unreadable. EDIT: never mind, apparently it was fixed in the meantime.

sdepablos 14y ago

I think Paymill would be a good alternative for us Europeans if not for the pricing. 2.95% + 0.28€ for transaction is really bad if you work with low margins and far far worse what we get working directly with our bank (and don't forget you only see your money once a week).

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

d0mme 14y ago

Thanks to everyone for feedback, we really appreciate your input! We have compiled a blog post to answer your questions: https://blog.paymill.com/2013/02/25/customer-feedback-on-our-service/ https://blog.paymill.com/2013/02/25/customer-feedback-on-our... Best, Dominic