3 ms·

here's one: You're paying an interest rate on your car, your mortgage and your bank loan right? OK, that interest rate is set by the bank. The way they do that

by mixmax 14y ago

here's one: You're paying an interest rate on your car, your mortgage and your bank loan right? OK, that interest rate is set by the bank. The way they do that is to use LIBOR, and add a bit on top which is their profit. So your loans follow LIBOR. The banks basically rigged the game, and changed LIBOR as they saw fit, meaning that you paid more in interest than you should. Your neighbour did too. And his neighbour. If you add it all up it's billions. They fucked everyone to make a quick buck, and it's illegal as hell.

omonra 14y ago
LIBOR was mostly manipulated down. See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18671255 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18671255 "At the onset of the financial crisis in September 2007 with the collapse of Northern Rock, liquidity concerns drew public scrutiny towards Libor. Barclays manipulated Libor submissions to give a healthier picture of the bank's credit quality and its ability to raise funds. A lower submission would deflect concerns it had problems borrowing cash from the markets." ... "From as early as 28 August, the New York Fed said it had received mass-distribution emails that suggested that Libor submissions were being set unrealistically low by the banks." Ie - you, the borrower - benefited from this manipulation.
- mixmax 14y ago
  You're right, and I know. I have an education in economics :-) The reason I omitted it was the difficult problem of explaining a complex subject in very few words, and still pointing the finger at banks. If you tell joe six-pack that his mortgage sometimes got cheaper you'll either have to divulge a complex explanation of why this is bad for him (which he won't understand or care about) or have him think that the banks should do some more of that LIBOR rigging so his mortgage can be lower. It's a compromise.
  - smsm42 14y ago
    If you didn't know the facts it is excusable mistake, but if you knew the facts and still wrote something that is factually wrong - because "joe six-pack can't handle the truth" - then I can't see how you can consider you're doing anything but plain and simple deception. And when "joe six-pack" with discover it - and he will, eventually - you'd be surprised why he doesn't believe any word you say anymore. If you sacrifice the truth in order to further your goals, you're part of the problem.
    - tomjen3 14y ago
      What makes you think joe sixpack will ever know the truth? Chances are good that he is a birther or that he doesn't believe in evolution.
      - smsm42 14y ago
        So you're saying "it's OK for me to lie to people because they're probably believing in some things that aren't true anyway"?
  - cynicalkane 14y ago
    It's not a compromise. The "simpler explanation" in this case is not a simplification, it's a lie. It's fundamentally misleading on why LIBOR rigging is bad.
- fnordfnordfnord 14y ago
  Benefited, that's one way to look at it. Another way is to consider that between LIBOR rigging, bailouts, mortgage fraud, bond rigging, money laundering, money printing, securities fraud, and other misc fraud, every single US citizen has undoubtedly realized a net loss on the matters in one way or another. But hey, cheap mortgages!
- smsm42 14y ago
  And this is exactly the problem with popular "simple" explanations of complex matters - people explain their prejudices ("banks rob the common man") instead of explaining what actually happened.

by mixmax 14y ago

omonra 14y ago

LIBOR was mostly manipulated down. See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18671255 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18671255 "At the onset of the financial crisis in September 2007 with the collapse of Northern Rock, liquidity concerns drew public scrutiny towards Libor. Barclays manipulated Libor submissions to give a healthier picture of the bank's credit quality and its ability to raise funds. A lower submission would deflect concerns it had problems borrowing cash from the markets." ... "From as early as 28 August, the New York Fed said it had received mass-distribution emails that suggested that Libor submissions were being set unrealistically low by the banks." Ie - you, the borrower - benefited from this manipulation.

mixmax 14y ago
You're right, and I know. I have an education in economics :-) The reason I omitted it was the difficult problem of explaining a complex subject in very few words, and still pointing the finger at banks. If you tell joe six-pack that his mortgage sometimes got cheaper you'll either have to divulge a complex explanation of why this is bad for him (which he won't understand or care about) or have him think that the banks should do some more of that LIBOR rigging so his mortgage can be lower. It's a compromise.
- smsm42 14y ago
  If you didn't know the facts it is excusable mistake, but if you knew the facts and still wrote something that is factually wrong - because "joe six-pack can't handle the truth" - then I can't see how you can consider you're doing anything but plain and simple deception. And when "joe six-pack" with discover it - and he will, eventually - you'd be surprised why he doesn't believe any word you say anymore. If you sacrifice the truth in order to further your goals, you're part of the problem.
  - tomjen3 14y ago
    What makes you think joe sixpack will ever know the truth? Chances are good that he is a birther or that he doesn't believe in evolution.
    - smsm42 14y ago
      So you're saying "it's OK for me to lie to people because they're probably believing in some things that aren't true anyway"?
- cynicalkane 14y ago
  It's not a compromise. The "simpler explanation" in this case is not a simplification, it's a lie. It's fundamentally misleading on why LIBOR rigging is bad.
fnordfnordfnord 14y ago
Benefited, that's one way to look at it. Another way is to consider that between LIBOR rigging, bailouts, mortgage fraud, bond rigging, money laundering, money printing, securities fraud, and other misc fraud, every single US citizen has undoubtedly realized a net loss on the matters in one way or another. But hey, cheap mortgages!
smsm42 14y ago
And this is exactly the problem with popular "simple" explanations of complex matters - people explain their prejudices ("banks rob the common man") instead of explaining what actually happened.