3 ms·

Welp, I was waiting for their official response to decide if I should deploy my app with Heroku or roll up my sleeves and rig up AWS servers (which I've done be

by gfodor 14y ago

Welp, I was waiting for their official response to decide if I should deploy my app with Heroku or roll up my sleeves and rig up AWS servers (which I've done before but was looking forward to not having to deal with it.) Based upon this post, it sounds like there are really no concrete steps that they have planned to fix the underlying issue. So, AWS it is. I am still considering having Heroku manage my PostgreSQL instance. This would be a large burden lifted leaving me to just manage the app servers, etc. Is there any reason to be concerned about their PostgreSQL hosting? Any horror stories?

gojomo 14y ago
Or, use their Cedar stack and multi-worker dynos, where the problem is much less acute (and is only going to affect you once you need many dynos). Figure that in a month or two they'll have learned and deployed more than you would on your own.
- unclebucknasty 14y ago
  Good points, but I think the other (maybe bigger) issue here is one of perception. Yes, they may nail this particular problem, but will customers trust their handling of the next issue? Heroku's offering is based on instilling confidence in customers that it will just plain do what is advertised without the pain. The story here is that customers experienced additional pain not only because they used Heroku's service, but also because of Heroku's failure to address real customer concerns for so long.
homosaur 14y ago
If you're considering Heroku, don't automatically dismiss it because of all this. For one, it's unlikely your site/app will ever be as big as RapGenius. That's not a shot, just reality. They ran into problems as an edge case. Is Heroku and their architecture at fault? Hell yeah it is, but I have faith that they will fix it. Why? Because I really think that when push comes to shove, Heroku was actually trying to do the right thing with the changes they made and perhaps didn't consider or understand some of the ramifications of the changes they made to the Rails community. They may have fallen in love a little too much with the new node.js hotness and the like. Their CORE audience is startups/new business where Rails is very popular and they understand what this has done to their reputation. If they don't address this in a serious way it will damage their business severely. I don't personally use Heroku but I have used it in the past and would not hesitate to use it on an appropriate project.
- matt2000 14y ago
  Fwiw our site isn't as big as rap genius and we see highly variable performance and timeouts even on requests that on average only take 100ms. I'm not ready to blame heroku entirely since there's a lot of moving parts that still could be at fault, but after optimizing as much as we could we still see the behavior. It feels like the routing layer could be the most likely problem. Summary: you might see highly variable request time regardless of traffic levels.
- jasonlynes 14y ago
  "it's unlikely your site/app will ever be as big as RapGenius" Heroku's entire promise is scalability. And this isn't an edge case, it will bite you if you need anything over 1 dyno.
  - homosaur 14y ago
    Yeah but for how long, a month? Do you honestly think this won't be fixed?
    - danielsamuels 14y ago
      Well so far it's been unfixed for 3 years.
- jwr 14y ago
  As for me, this story excludes Heroku from any future consideration. Why? There are two reasons for paying a significant premium to a a platform provider: a) you don't want to do this job yourself, b) someone knows better how to do it. This story showed me that (b) isn't true. Now, I'm all for learning and growing and improving, but not on my business and not on my applications, and especially not while I'm paying a premium for it, being promised "scalability".
46Bit 14y ago
If your app is Railsian and will have requests that take a few seconds to be served, I'd suggest AWS. If it's ultimately a simple CRUD app then Heroku should be fine until you're at significant scale - and this issue will never be as severe. Bit I wrote earlier about time-consuming requests - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5216593 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5216593

by gfodor 14y ago

gojomo 14y ago

Or, use their Cedar stack and multi-worker dynos, where the problem is much less acute (and is only going to affect you once you need many dynos). Figure that in a month or two they'll have learned and deployed more than you would on your own.

unclebucknasty 14y ago
Good points, but I think the other (maybe bigger) issue here is one of perception. Yes, they may nail this particular problem, but will customers trust their handling of the next issue? Heroku's offering is based on instilling confidence in customers that it will just plain do what is advertised without the pain. The story here is that customers experienced additional pain not only because they used Heroku's service, but also because of Heroku's failure to address real customer concerns for so long.

homosaur 14y ago

If you're considering Heroku, don't automatically dismiss it because of all this. For one, it's unlikely your site/app will ever be as big as RapGenius. That's not a shot, just reality. They ran into problems as an edge case. Is Heroku and their architecture at fault? Hell yeah it is, but I have faith that they will fix it. Why? Because I really think that when push comes to shove, Heroku was actually trying to do the right thing with the changes they made and perhaps didn't consider or understand some of the ramifications of the changes they made to the Rails community. They may have fallen in love a little too much with the new node.js hotness and the like. Their CORE audience is startups/new business where Rails is very popular and they understand what this has done to their reputation. If they don't address this in a serious way it will damage their business severely. I don't personally use Heroku but I have used it in the past and would not hesitate to use it on an appropriate project.

matt2000 14y ago
Fwiw our site isn't as big as rap genius and we see highly variable performance and timeouts even on requests that on average only take 100ms. I'm not ready to blame heroku entirely since there's a lot of moving parts that still could be at fault, but after optimizing as much as we could we still see the behavior. It feels like the routing layer could be the most likely problem. Summary: you might see highly variable request time regardless of traffic levels.
jasonlynes 14y ago
"it's unlikely your site/app will ever be as big as RapGenius" Heroku's entire promise is scalability. And this isn't an edge case, it will bite you if you need anything over 1 dyno.
- homosaur 14y ago
  Yeah but for how long, a month? Do you honestly think this won't be fixed?
  - danielsamuels 14y ago
    Well so far it's been unfixed for 3 years.
jwr 14y ago
As for me, this story excludes Heroku from any future consideration. Why? There are two reasons for paying a significant premium to a a platform provider: a) you don't want to do this job yourself, b) someone knows better how to do it. This story showed me that (b) isn't true. Now, I'm all for learning and growing and improving, but not on my business and not on my applications, and especially not while I'm paying a premium for it, being promised "scalability".

46Bit 14y ago

If your app is Railsian and will have requests that take a few seconds to be served, I'd suggest AWS. If it's ultimately a simple CRUD app then Heroku should be fine until you're at significant scale - and this issue will never be as severe. Bit I wrote earlier about time-consuming requests - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5216593 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5216593