3 ms·

And? How does that have any bearing on the story at hand whatsoever? As an entrepreneur who has seriously considered moving to singapore in the past I am much

by venus 14y ago

And? How does that have any bearing on the story at hand whatsoever? As an entrepreneur who has seriously considered moving to singapore in the past I am much more interested in what can happen when you do obey their (quite reasonable) laws.

batgaijin 14y ago
I think we all know if you're in asia stay as legal as possible. I'm just saying don't make an exception for Singapore.
- venus 14y ago
  Fair enough. Good advice. I'm trying not to come across as some pro-authoritarianism masochist in this thread but am I really alone in thinking that there's some merit in deciding a set of laws, then enforcing them? Overstay your visa? Is that really a minor crime? Does that happen by accident? When was the last time you "accidentally" stayed more than 90 days in a foreign country? In my country, Australia, you'd be "punished" by being flown home at our expense. Wow. What a deterrent. That'll stop them .. er, using the same passport the next time they try. There are a lot of things to love about western society but the blind adherence to this 1970s "never harm the child" ideology is fucking crap. Corporal punishment works. It's as simple as that. We have dispensed with it in western culture - without an effective alternative - to our loss.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    Are you familiar with what caning, as performed as intended in Singapore, actually entails? It is not merely the infliction of pain, not some glorified form of spanking, but rather the infliction of bodily injury so severe that it requires immediate medical attention. It is barbaric, there is no nicer way to put it. Any reasonable human would consider it torture. Suggesting that it could ever be a suitable punishment for violating the terms of a visa is ludicrous. If that is the sort of thing that you want to buy into, then I guess all I can say is that the rest of western society is better off without your perspective.
    - venus 14y ago
      You exaggerate. It's not a slap on the wrist, no, but calling it torture is a very long stretch indeed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore#Medical_treatment_and_the_effects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore#Medical_tre...
      - jlgreco 14y ago
        It is torture. It would be in clear violation of United Nations Convention Against Torture, but Singapore has not signed that. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3c9_1304013159 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3c9_1304013159 Tell you what, if you think that isn't torture, then you go get caned. If you can tell me it isn't torture afterwards, provided you are not in shock, then I'll take it all back. But if not, then I get to watch you attempt to cram your apologetics up your ruined ass.
        venus 14y ago
        > Tell you what, if you think that isn't torture, then you go get caned Yeah man. Why don't you say "Tell you what, if you think prison isn't inhumane, you go spend 25 years in prison" Way to demand an unreasonable precondition to progress in an argument. Is there a name for this fallacy? Anyway, that video is hard to watch, and I would be sympathetic to an appeal to reduce cane size and weight.
        lutusp 14y ago
        > Way to demand an unreasonable precondition to progress in an argument. Is there a name for this fallacy? I don't know if it has an official name. I call it the "Jury Fallacy." The Jury Fallacy says that, to have the right to express an opinion or form a judgment about some behavior, you must have personally experienced, or taken part in, that behavior. Which would mean that, to serve on a jury in a murder trial, you must be a murderer. But it's neither true nor sensible -- to qualify for a jury, to be able to draw a conclusion, all you need is to be competent to evaluate evidence. So ... the "Jury Fallacy."
  - sses 14y ago
    One of my coworkers had an off by one error when booking a return flight and overstayed his visa by a day (not in Singapore). So yes, it happens by accident. The idea that he should be caned as a result is ludicrous.
    - jasonlingx 14y ago
      You only get caned if you overstay by more than 90 days in Singapore.
      - homosaur 14y ago
        Oh well then that totally makes it okay.
        jasonlingx 14y ago
        Just correcting the misinformation that you can get caned by overstaying for a single day...
- olalonde 14y ago
  FWIW, I overstayed my Chinese visa by one day and had to pay a ~90$ fine. I was on my way 5 minutes later.

by venus 14y ago

batgaijin 14y ago

I think we all know if you're in asia stay as legal as possible. I'm just saying don't make an exception for Singapore.

venus 14y ago
Fair enough. Good advice. I'm trying not to come across as some pro-authoritarianism masochist in this thread but am I really alone in thinking that there's some merit in deciding a set of laws, then enforcing them? Overstay your visa? Is that really a minor crime? Does that happen by accident? When was the last time you "accidentally" stayed more than 90 days in a foreign country? In my country, Australia, you'd be "punished" by being flown home at our expense. Wow. What a deterrent. That'll stop them .. er, using the same passport the next time they try. There are a lot of things to love about western society but the blind adherence to this 1970s "never harm the child" ideology is fucking crap. Corporal punishment works. It's as simple as that. We have dispensed with it in western culture - without an effective alternative - to our loss.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  Are you familiar with what caning, as performed as intended in Singapore, actually entails? It is not merely the infliction of pain, not some glorified form of spanking, but rather the infliction of bodily injury so severe that it requires immediate medical attention. It is barbaric, there is no nicer way to put it. Any reasonable human would consider it torture. Suggesting that it could ever be a suitable punishment for violating the terms of a visa is ludicrous. If that is the sort of thing that you want to buy into, then I guess all I can say is that the rest of western society is better off without your perspective.
  - venus 14y ago
    You exaggerate. It's not a slap on the wrist, no, but calling it torture is a very long stretch indeed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore#Medical_treatment_and_the_effects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning_in_Singapore#Medical_tre...
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      It is torture. It would be in clear violation of United Nations Convention Against Torture, but Singapore has not signed that. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3c9_1304013159 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3c9_1304013159 Tell you what, if you think that isn't torture, then you go get caned. If you can tell me it isn't torture afterwards, provided you are not in shock, then I'll take it all back. But if not, then I get to watch you attempt to cram your apologetics up your ruined ass.
      - venus 14y ago
        > Tell you what, if you think that isn't torture, then you go get caned Yeah man. Why don't you say "Tell you what, if you think prison isn't inhumane, you go spend 25 years in prison" Way to demand an unreasonable precondition to progress in an argument. Is there a name for this fallacy? Anyway, that video is hard to watch, and I would be sympathetic to an appeal to reduce cane size and weight.
        lutusp 14y ago
        > Way to demand an unreasonable precondition to progress in an argument. Is there a name for this fallacy? I don't know if it has an official name. I call it the "Jury Fallacy." The Jury Fallacy says that, to have the right to express an opinion or form a judgment about some behavior, you must have personally experienced, or taken part in, that behavior. Which would mean that, to serve on a jury in a murder trial, you must be a murderer. But it's neither true nor sensible -- to qualify for a jury, to be able to draw a conclusion, all you need is to be competent to evaluate evidence. So ... the "Jury Fallacy."
- sses 14y ago
  One of my coworkers had an off by one error when booking a return flight and overstayed his visa by a day (not in Singapore). So yes, it happens by accident. The idea that he should be caned as a result is ludicrous.
  - jasonlingx 14y ago
    You only get caned if you overstay by more than 90 days in Singapore.
    - homosaur 14y ago
      Oh well then that totally makes it okay.
      - jasonlingx 14y ago
        Just correcting the misinformation that you can get caned by overstaying for a single day...
olalonde 14y ago
FWIW, I overstayed my Chinese visa by one day and had to pay a ~90$ fine. I was on my way 5 minutes later.