6 ms·

Magnet Implants Can Actually be Pretty Annoying

72 points by iamdann 14y ago

jlgreco 14y ago
Fair enough, but why doesn't he just cut it out? At the first hint of pain that thing would be outta there for me.
cpeterso 14y ago
Who'd a thought?!
Cushman 14y ago
To summarize: Having a sense for something that is invisible to everyone else can mean that many well-designed things are very poorly designed for you. Which actually sounds like your basic early adopter problem. Hypothetically, as more and more people gain this sense, there will be market pressure to make the world more interesting and usable for them, and the growing competitive advantage for those who have it will accelerate the process. This won't be the last novel sense humanity sees... It will be interesting to see this play out, if not with magnetism than with UV or radar or whatever it is.
- iamdann 14y ago
  This is a great summary: "Having a sense for something that is invisible to everyone else can mean that many well-designed things are very poorly designed for you." Thanks!
- sethist 14y ago
  It is interesting that this wouldn't be assumed considering the reverse is so obviously true. The world is designed for people with the median amount of human senses. If you lose one completely or have a sense that isn't as perceptive as most other people, there are a variety of challenges that you will have to overcome. However, you do get to avoid some of the everyday annoyances that the rest of us have to deal with.
- wlesieutre 14y ago
  I'd rather have manually induced signals than a magnet, ideally something that could use low power bluetooth (or similar) to talk to my smartphone. Maybe a set of muscle-twitching electrodes to replace vibrate mode on my phone, or to poke me for anything else that I'd want to be notified of. With enough outputs you even do things similar to the vibrating compass belt that's mentioned elsewhere in the comments. Or instead of a north-compass, it could point you toward any arbitrary destination via GPS.
  - shurane 14y ago
    Or just gloves instead of implants. So you can take them off, but still get the benefit when they're on. I don't see why it isn't possible.
    - wlesieutre 14y ago
      Definitely more what I had in mind
Udo 14y ago
Looking at how exceptionally crude this "implant" is, it should come as no surprise to anyone how annoying and uncomfortable it turned out to be. The technique here is to embed a small magnet subcutaneously, that's it. I think having a magnetic sense in general would be cool, but not like this. A real piece of cyberware instead of this crude body mod butchery might well be worth trying out. It would be especially nice if it was sensitive enough to work as a compass.
- networked 14y ago
  There is a conceptually neat non-implant solution if you want a compass sixth sense: http://sensebridge.net/projects/northpaw/ http://sensebridge.net/projects/northpaw/.
  - Udo 14y ago
    I think I saw a video about a guy who made something like this himself once. It was pretty neat as he could navigate with his eyes closed and stuff like that!
    - networked 14y ago
      >It was pretty neat as he could navigate with his eyes closed and stuff like that! Sounds interesting. Can you find it? As a related note: considering the problems a magnet implant can cause you (as a person who recently had an MRI scan I'm quite happy I didn't get one), why not make something like Northpaw for sensing magnetism? Make it a ring that vibrates or a flexible wristband that contracts and expands in response to magnetic fields.
      - Udo 14y ago
        > Sounds interesting. Can you find it? Sorry, I looked, but search results are polluted by Northpaw/Eric Boyd - it might have been the same guy though, maybe when he was prototyping. I remember someone doing blind figure-8s on their bike.
- 14y ago
pygy_ 14y ago
Another point, not mentioned in the article, is that you can't approach an MRI unit, unless you want to see the magnet rip out of your finger and ballistically destroy stuff on its way to the 1.5+ Tesla superconductive monster bathing in liquid helium. /dramatic exaggeration. Seriously, it can be very problematic, though. See http://www.simplyphysics.com/flying_objects.html http://www.simplyphysics.com/flying_objects.html
- iamdann 14y ago
  Yup, just like people with cheap "prison" tattoos.
  - Nogwater 14y ago
    Not according to Mythbusters: http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-database/mri-machines-and-tattoos.htm http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-da...
    - iamdann 14y ago
      Additionally, people with magnet implants have successfully had MRIs, too. http://stevehaworth.com/main/?page_id=871 http://stevehaworth.com/main/?page_id=871
- rtkwe 14y ago
  Didn't know they were always or mostly energized. I thought they were only powered during an actual MRI scan.
  - fossuser 14y ago
    They're super conductors so shutting them off involves draining all the liquid helium and nitrogen which is very expensive.
    - sp332 14y ago
digikata 14y ago
A less permanent way to experiment with magnetic sense would be to superglue the magnet to your fingertip. It might be a bit less sensitive, but there are no incisons involved, and depending on how well the glue bonds, it should come off in a few days to a week.
- iamdann 14y ago
  This has been suggested a lot. I haven't personally tried it, but I have friends with magnet implants who have and they said it was quite different, actually.
  - digikata 14y ago
    Different, but you'd still get a sense. I'd think you could go with a more powerful magnet on your fingertip than implanted within it too. So you could end up more sensitive in some ways...
    - iamdann 14y ago
      Yes, very true. I think the main difference that I would imagine would be psychological. The sensation of having something external vibrating against your skin, as with a magnet superglued to a finger, is different than the sensations being internalized. When my magnet responds to something, it feels like I am responding to something. I don't feel a sense of separation from the magnet. That being said, supergluing a magnet to a finger is probably the closest one can get without getting the actual procedure. Which obviously isn't for everyone, heh.
- __--__ 14y ago
  Another less permanent way is to get a magnetic wedding ring. Saw this from the guy who implanted an RFID chip in his arm: http://blog.holyscraphotsprings.com/2011/12/reasonably-priced-sixth-sense.html http://blog.holyscraphotsprings.com/2011/12/reasonably-price...
guylhem 14y ago
Maybe the problem is the size of the implant. I've seen pictures of rice-sized implants - that's IMHO far too big to go into a fingertip - unless you don't use your finger at all. A smaller implant would be less sensitive to magnetic fields, ie less distracting. I'm not really into implants, but maybe something no bigger than a needle could be tested by an eager volunteer? A biocompatible coating is needed, which increases the size - the technical challenge is making an implant small enough, coating included, to be helpful without being painful or distracting
DanBC 14y ago
I prefer not jabbing things under my skin. This bottle of oil, steel wool, and a magnet is fun. (http://www.discoverthis.com/project-magnetic-field-bottle.html http://www.discoverthis.com/project-magnetic-field-bottle.ht...)
astangl 14y ago
Woah, this is actually a thing people are doing?
- sp332 14y ago
  It's been done since the 90's at least but there's been active interest and development in the last 8 years or so. http://wiki.bme.com/index.php?title=Magnetic_Implant http://wiki.bme.com/index.php?title=Magnetic_Implant However "Implant work isn't ready for prime time. While Huffman loves his implant, he discourages others from getting it. "Most people don't understand the risks, and implant work isn't appropriate for most people." Those risks include infection and breach of the magnet's silicone sheath. The procedure itself is painful, and the results vary from person to person for unknown and unstudied reasons. Huffman doesn't see it as a candidate for study." http://www.wired.com/gadgets/mods/news/2006/06/71087 http://www.wired.com/gadgets/mods/news/2006/06/71087
pdog 14y ago
> However, I do find that bringing it up on a “first date” is a great way to separate the curious from the close minded. It does seperate the curious. Ironically, when a date finds the magnet, he's the close minded one.
benologist 14y ago
You need to think about anything you put in or under your skin. News at 11.

72 points by iamdann 14y ago

jlgreco 14y ago

Fair enough, but why doesn't he just cut it out? At the first hint of pain that thing would be outta there for me.

cpeterso 14y ago

Who'd a thought?!

Cushman 14y ago

To summarize: Having a sense for something that is invisible to everyone else can mean that many well-designed things are very poorly designed for you. Which actually sounds like your basic early adopter problem. Hypothetically, as more and more people gain this sense, there will be market pressure to make the world more interesting and usable for them, and the growing competitive advantage for those who have it will accelerate the process. This won't be the last novel sense humanity sees... It will be interesting to see this play out, if not with magnetism than with UV or radar or whatever it is.

iamdann 14y ago
This is a great summary: "Having a sense for something that is invisible to everyone else can mean that many well-designed things are very poorly designed for you." Thanks!
sethist 14y ago
It is interesting that this wouldn't be assumed considering the reverse is so obviously true. The world is designed for people with the median amount of human senses. If you lose one completely or have a sense that isn't as perceptive as most other people, there are a variety of challenges that you will have to overcome. However, you do get to avoid some of the everyday annoyances that the rest of us have to deal with.
wlesieutre 14y ago
I'd rather have manually induced signals than a magnet, ideally something that could use low power bluetooth (or similar) to talk to my smartphone. Maybe a set of muscle-twitching electrodes to replace vibrate mode on my phone, or to poke me for anything else that I'd want to be notified of. With enough outputs you even do things similar to the vibrating compass belt that's mentioned elsewhere in the comments. Or instead of a north-compass, it could point you toward any arbitrary destination via GPS.
- shurane 14y ago
  Or just gloves instead of implants. So you can take them off, but still get the benefit when they're on. I don't see why it isn't possible.
  - wlesieutre 14y ago
    Definitely more what I had in mind

Udo 14y ago

Looking at how exceptionally crude this "implant" is, it should come as no surprise to anyone how annoying and uncomfortable it turned out to be. The technique here is to embed a small magnet subcutaneously, that's it. I think having a magnetic sense in general would be cool, but not like this. A real piece of cyberware instead of this crude body mod butchery might well be worth trying out. It would be especially nice if it was sensitive enough to work as a compass.

networked 14y ago
There is a conceptually neat non-implant solution if you want a compass sixth sense: http://sensebridge.net/projects/northpaw/ http://sensebridge.net/projects/northpaw/.
- Udo 14y ago
  I think I saw a video about a guy who made something like this himself once. It was pretty neat as he could navigate with his eyes closed and stuff like that!
  - networked 14y ago
    >It was pretty neat as he could navigate with his eyes closed and stuff like that! Sounds interesting. Can you find it? As a related note: considering the problems a magnet implant can cause you (as a person who recently had an MRI scan I'm quite happy I didn't get one), why not make something like Northpaw for sensing magnetism? Make it a ring that vibrates or a flexible wristband that contracts and expands in response to magnetic fields.
    - Udo 14y ago
      > Sounds interesting. Can you find it? Sorry, I looked, but search results are polluted by Northpaw/Eric Boyd - it might have been the same guy though, maybe when he was prototyping. I remember someone doing blind figure-8s on their bike.
14y ago

pygy_ 14y ago

Another point, not mentioned in the article, is that you can't approach an MRI unit, unless you want to see the magnet rip out of your finger and ballistically destroy stuff on its way to the 1.5+ Tesla superconductive monster bathing in liquid helium. /dramatic exaggeration. Seriously, it can be very problematic, though. See http://www.simplyphysics.com/flying_objects.html http://www.simplyphysics.com/flying_objects.html

iamdann 14y ago
Yup, just like people with cheap "prison" tattoos.
- Nogwater 14y ago
  Not according to Mythbusters: http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-database/mri-machines-and-tattoos.htm http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/mythbusters-da...
  - iamdann 14y ago
    Additionally, people with magnet implants have successfully had MRIs, too. http://stevehaworth.com/main/?page_id=871 http://stevehaworth.com/main/?page_id=871
rtkwe 14y ago
Didn't know they were always or mostly energized. I thought they were only powered during an actual MRI scan.
- fossuser 14y ago
  They're super conductors so shutting them off involves draining all the liquid helium and nitrogen which is very expensive.
  - sp332 14y ago

digikata 14y ago

A less permanent way to experiment with magnetic sense would be to superglue the magnet to your fingertip. It might be a bit less sensitive, but there are no incisons involved, and depending on how well the glue bonds, it should come off in a few days to a week.

iamdann 14y ago
This has been suggested a lot. I haven't personally tried it, but I have friends with magnet implants who have and they said it was quite different, actually.
- digikata 14y ago
  Different, but you'd still get a sense. I'd think you could go with a more powerful magnet on your fingertip than implanted within it too. So you could end up more sensitive in some ways...
  - iamdann 14y ago
    Yes, very true. I think the main difference that I would imagine would be psychological. The sensation of having something external vibrating against your skin, as with a magnet superglued to a finger, is different than the sensations being internalized. When my magnet responds to something, it feels like I am responding to something. I don't feel a sense of separation from the magnet. That being said, supergluing a magnet to a finger is probably the closest one can get without getting the actual procedure. Which obviously isn't for everyone, heh.
__--__ 14y ago
Another less permanent way is to get a magnetic wedding ring. Saw this from the guy who implanted an RFID chip in his arm: http://blog.holyscraphotsprings.com/2011/12/reasonably-priced-sixth-sense.html http://blog.holyscraphotsprings.com/2011/12/reasonably-price...

guylhem 14y ago

Maybe the problem is the size of the implant. I've seen pictures of rice-sized implants - that's IMHO far too big to go into a fingertip - unless you don't use your finger at all. A smaller implant would be less sensitive to magnetic fields, ie less distracting. I'm not really into implants, but maybe something no bigger than a needle could be tested by an eager volunteer? A biocompatible coating is needed, which increases the size - the technical challenge is making an implant small enough, coating included, to be helpful without being painful or distracting

DanBC 14y ago

I prefer not jabbing things under my skin. This bottle of oil, steel wool, and a magnet is fun. (http://www.discoverthis.com/project-magnetic-field-bottle.html http://www.discoverthis.com/project-magnetic-field-bottle.ht...)

astangl 14y ago

Woah, this is actually a thing people are doing?

sp332 14y ago
It's been done since the 90's at least but there's been active interest and development in the last 8 years or so. http://wiki.bme.com/index.php?title=Magnetic_Implant http://wiki.bme.com/index.php?title=Magnetic_Implant However "Implant work isn't ready for prime time. While Huffman loves his implant, he discourages others from getting it. "Most people don't understand the risks, and implant work isn't appropriate for most people." Those risks include infection and breach of the magnet's silicone sheath. The procedure itself is painful, and the results vary from person to person for unknown and unstudied reasons. Huffman doesn't see it as a candidate for study." http://www.wired.com/gadgets/mods/news/2006/06/71087 http://www.wired.com/gadgets/mods/news/2006/06/71087

pdog 14y ago

> However, I do find that bringing it up on a “first date” is a great way to separate the curious from the close minded. It does seperate the curious. Ironically, when a date finds the magnet, he's the close minded one.

benologist 14y ago

You need to think about anything you put in or under your skin. News at 11.