4 ms·

Just tell them it is the same computer, just with an upgraded CPU, RAM, mobo, case, screws, cables, ... Or install office in a VM you can shuffle around at wil

by gnu8 14y ago

Just tell them it is the same computer, just with an upgraded CPU, RAM, mobo, case, screws, cables, ... Or install office in a VM you can shuffle around at will forever. Perhaps even a Thinapp. You could even keep your virtualized office on Dropbox and use it on all ten of your personal computers (but not concurrently of course).

eli 14y ago
I never really understood this line of thinking. Rather than trying to "hack" the license terms, you should just buy a new license when you buy a new computer, since that's what you agreed to. If you're willing to violate the license, why not just pirate the thing in the first place?
- kamjam 14y ago
  It's things like this that drive those pirating numbers up! VM's and the like may be fine for us tech/power users, but for most normal users who just pop the DVD in and install, then to be greeted with a "sorry, buy another copy" this is going to be very annoying!
  - rayiner 14y ago
    Lots of products/services are annoying. I usually address the problem by simply not using them.
    - kamjam 14y ago
      I agree, but some things you just cannot get away with NOT using. Too many people are used to using MS Office. As good (or bad) as the open source alternatives are, too many of my friends/relatives are used to the interface. It's a huge re-training exercise to get them to use something else unfortunately. I still use Office 2007, because there is nothing in 2010 and doubt 2013 that I will use outside of a business environment.
      - rayiner 14y ago
        So what? I fly commercial airlines even though they are terrible because sometimes I have no alternatives. I still pay for my ticket instead of sneaking on board. Microsoft gets to extract a high price for Office because its popular and the product has a strong network effect. That's one of the advantages of having an immensely popular product. Either use it or don't--don't try to justify pirating it.
        kamjam 14y ago
        I didn't justify pirating it, I said it would drive numbers up, there's a difference. And your comparison is flawed. When you buy an airline ticket you know you are buying a single use ticket. If you want a travel comparison then it is like buying a car and saying you can only use it in a single state. Microsoft gets to extract a high price for Office because its popular and the product has a strong network effect. That's one of the advantages of having an immensely popular product. Sure, a high price is one thing but charging people twice for different devices or charging again for changing your machine is going a little too far. The _price_ is not the issue, it's the pricing model. Either use it or don't Like I said, it's not as black and white as that. With this pricing model I won't use Office 2013.
  - d23 14y ago
    Even as a power user, should I pay for a license to software just to be be subjected to the decreased performance and annoyances of basic file sharing of a VM? No thanks.
    - kamjam 14y ago
      Yes, totally agree.
- glogla 14y ago
  Because pirated copy will annoy you with how it's not genuine, while real copy you use on more computers then you are allowed to (or that you reinstalled or something) will shut up and work? I guess. I don't use Microsoft software when I can get away with it.
  - eli 14y ago
    IMHO, paying for a license and then willfully violating its terms to get more than you paid for doesn't really seem morally or legally superior to just stealing it in the first place. I mean, you could also fraudulently claim to be a school teacher to get a cheaper Office license... Regardless, you're setting your startup up for an embarrassing and expensive situation if a potential investor or acquirer decides to audit your licenses as part of their due diligence...
- AutoCorrect 14y ago
  Libre Office. Drop MS Office. Free. Your. Docs.
- gnu8 14y ago
  I don't believe any of what I suggested would be a violation of the license, unless there is language in the license forbidding virtualization, or giving a solution to the ship of Theseus problem.
jiggy2011 14y ago
The VM example is interesting. At what point does a VM qualify as a different computer? For example if I shutdown my VM and then "upgrade" it by allocating more RAM or changing some of the emulated hardware does that mean I lose my office license? What happens if you keep the same hardware but install a different version of Windows?
- gnu8 14y ago
  The same questions apply to a real computer. When MS introduced activation on Windows XP, they spelled out what hardware changes would require a reactivation. Which was just an inconvenience, it didn't terminate your license to use Windows. Microsoft should tell us what hardware changes they're looking for, if any. Maybe it is only tied to an installation ID of Windows.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  I think that in the VM, the guest OS sees the same CPU as the host OS, so if the license is tied to that CPU, no luck.
JulianMorrison 14y ago
Or install LibreOffice.

by gnu8 14y ago

eli 14y ago

I never really understood this line of thinking. Rather than trying to "hack" the license terms, you should just buy a new license when you buy a new computer, since that's what you agreed to. If you're willing to violate the license, why not just pirate the thing in the first place?

kamjam 14y ago
It's things like this that drive those pirating numbers up! VM's and the like may be fine for us tech/power users, but for most normal users who just pop the DVD in and install, then to be greeted with a "sorry, buy another copy" this is going to be very annoying!
- rayiner 14y ago
  Lots of products/services are annoying. I usually address the problem by simply not using them.
  - kamjam 14y ago
    I agree, but some things you just cannot get away with NOT using. Too many people are used to using MS Office. As good (or bad) as the open source alternatives are, too many of my friends/relatives are used to the interface. It's a huge re-training exercise to get them to use something else unfortunately. I still use Office 2007, because there is nothing in 2010 and doubt 2013 that I will use outside of a business environment.
    - rayiner 14y ago
      So what? I fly commercial airlines even though they are terrible because sometimes I have no alternatives. I still pay for my ticket instead of sneaking on board. Microsoft gets to extract a high price for Office because its popular and the product has a strong network effect. That's one of the advantages of having an immensely popular product. Either use it or don't--don't try to justify pirating it.
      - kamjam 14y ago
        I didn't justify pirating it, I said it would drive numbers up, there's a difference. And your comparison is flawed. When you buy an airline ticket you know you are buying a single use ticket. If you want a travel comparison then it is like buying a car and saying you can only use it in a single state. Microsoft gets to extract a high price for Office because its popular and the product has a strong network effect. That's one of the advantages of having an immensely popular product. Sure, a high price is one thing but charging people twice for different devices or charging again for changing your machine is going a little too far. The _price_ is not the issue, it's the pricing model. Either use it or don't Like I said, it's not as black and white as that. With this pricing model I won't use Office 2013.
- d23 14y ago
  Even as a power user, should I pay for a license to software just to be be subjected to the decreased performance and annoyances of basic file sharing of a VM? No thanks.
  - kamjam 14y ago
    Yes, totally agree.
glogla 14y ago
Because pirated copy will annoy you with how it's not genuine, while real copy you use on more computers then you are allowed to (or that you reinstalled or something) will shut up and work? I guess. I don't use Microsoft software when I can get away with it.
- eli 14y ago
  IMHO, paying for a license and then willfully violating its terms to get more than you paid for doesn't really seem morally or legally superior to just stealing it in the first place. I mean, you could also fraudulently claim to be a school teacher to get a cheaper Office license... Regardless, you're setting your startup up for an embarrassing and expensive situation if a potential investor or acquirer decides to audit your licenses as part of their due diligence...
AutoCorrect 14y ago
Libre Office. Drop MS Office. Free. Your. Docs.
gnu8 14y ago
I don't believe any of what I suggested would be a violation of the license, unless there is language in the license forbidding virtualization, or giving a solution to the ship of Theseus problem.

jiggy2011 14y ago

The VM example is interesting. At what point does a VM qualify as a different computer? For example if I shutdown my VM and then "upgrade" it by allocating more RAM or changing some of the emulated hardware does that mean I lose my office license? What happens if you keep the same hardware but install a different version of Windows?

gnu8 14y ago
The same questions apply to a real computer. When MS introduced activation on Windows XP, they spelled out what hardware changes would require a reactivation. Which was just an inconvenience, it didn't terminate your license to use Windows. Microsoft should tell us what hardware changes they're looking for, if any. Maybe it is only tied to an installation ID of Windows.
TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
I think that in the VM, the guest OS sees the same CPU as the host OS, so if the license is tied to that CPU, no luck.

JulianMorrison 14y ago

Or install LibreOffice.