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"As a merchant, it could hypothetically be easier or cheaper to deal with Bitcoin than other currencies online. (For example, note how aggravating/risky PayPal

"As a merchant, it could hypothetically be easier or cheaper to deal with Bitcoin than other currencies online. (For example, note how aggravating/risky PayPal is.)" As a customer, I don't care about how aggravating/risky PayPal is to you. I also don't care that you have trouble with any other merchant account. I'm going to use the payment option that gives me the most protection and is most convenient to me. Credit card companies and PayPal allow me to dispute charges for unsatisfactory service. Even though I've rarely used that in my life, it's a huge reassurance! As I understand it, Bitcoin is like a cash transaction with very little recourse for the customer. Once the transaction is complete, you can't reverse it (I'm still learning about it so please correct me if I'm wrong). There could come a day when a middle man comes between the merchant and customer to give customer protection but then you're pretty much in the same boat as we are now. Note: I'm also a merchant, so I know the pains of PayPal and merchant accounts. Just reminding you to look at it from the customer perspective.

coopdog 14y ago
How about this one, whenever I have to buy anything in USD (which is a lot, I only have AUD), I have the privilege of paying 4% more than the listed price due to currency exchange spread. Bitcoin would give me a 4% discount on everything, even still considering merchant gateways take another 1-2% from the merchant, for a 6% total. The merchant gateway might not get to keep that 4%, it might even be eaten up by hedging against currency fluctuations, but either way unifying everyone onto one currency would remove those risks and costs. Merchants would only need to convert back once a year at tax time to pay their government.
javert 14y ago
Supposedly, savings for merchants can get passed on to customers. For example, I have heard that prices on bitcoinstore.com (which is a big consumer electronics site) are significantly cheaper than elsewhere. I haven't tried to compute that myself, so I don't know if it's actually true. Also, when paying with Bitcoin, I don't have to reveal my name to the merchant. That can matter a lot for certain things. For example, I wouldn't want to make any kind of "adult" purchases using my real name.
- MichaelApproved 14y ago
  Bingo! Adult websites have been technological pioneers and they can probably help drive Bitcoin forward with payments. I think it's the most promising method of getting bitcoin into the mainstream.
SilasX 14y ago
Bitcoin, like cash, does not prevent you from layering an escrow-like protocol on top of it; it's just that: a) it's not built-in by default; and b) it's a lot easier to get into business offering such a service (you just just need to have the trust of typical pairs of parties, rather than that PLUS all the stuff you'd have to put up with when setting up a whole new payment network). Using Bitcoin does not condemn you to being at the mercy of every merchant you may ever buy from. (FWIW, the above is why I don't understand the excessive promotion of "OMG LOL no chargebacks FTW!")
- javert 14y ago
  > (FWIW, the above is why I don't understand the excessive promotion of "OMG LOL no chargebacks FTW!") That flexibility is great. I'd be perfectly happy to buy from a lot of merchants that I trust (say, Amazon.com) without the ability to chargeback. That will lower costs for them, which will be passed on to the consumer (if the overall market is competitive). OTOH, merchants that aren't widely trusted may "have" to allow customers to purchase using an escrow-like service that allows chargebacks. In fact, maybe the same merchant could offer both options; you pay a tiny bit more for escrow.
  - MichaelApproved 14y ago
    Good point. I trust Amazon enough to complete a purchase with Bitcoin. I think the term escrow would be too confusing for most customers but that'll probably work out as the platform develops.
    - SilasX 14y ago
      I meant "escrow-like" in the sense that PayPal and credit cards (with their evil chargebacks!) are escrow-like: you don't use the term, you just know that you have recourse if you're stiffed and that the payments are reversible. The difference is that you don't have to be as big (or as versed in financial regulation) to provide such a service: if you're trusted among the gambling community, you can provide "PayPal with Bitcoins" for them, because they trust you. If you're trusted among arts and crafts dealers and their customers, you can be the trusted party that enables chargebacks on Bitcoin in that area. Etc.
celticninja 14y ago
Accepting bit coin means reduced chance of fraud, so the merchant can offer a price reduction for payment in bitcoin. If I am selling iPhones and accepting PayPal then I have to charge legitimate customers more to cover fraud by dodgy customers.
Tichy 14y ago
Uh, as a customer I have had lots of problems with PayPal, too. They are not only a problem for vendors.

coopdog 14y ago

How about this one, whenever I have to buy anything in USD (which is a lot, I only have AUD), I have the privilege of paying 4% more than the listed price due to currency exchange spread. Bitcoin would give me a 4% discount on everything, even still considering merchant gateways take another 1-2% from the merchant, for a 6% total. The merchant gateway might not get to keep that 4%, it might even be eaten up by hedging against currency fluctuations, but either way unifying everyone onto one currency would remove those risks and costs. Merchants would only need to convert back once a year at tax time to pay their government.

javert 14y ago

Supposedly, savings for merchants can get passed on to customers. For example, I have heard that prices on bitcoinstore.com (which is a big consumer electronics site) are significantly cheaper than elsewhere. I haven't tried to compute that myself, so I don't know if it's actually true. Also, when paying with Bitcoin, I don't have to reveal my name to the merchant. That can matter a lot for certain things. For example, I wouldn't want to make any kind of "adult" purchases using my real name.

MichaelApproved 14y ago
Bingo! Adult websites have been technological pioneers and they can probably help drive Bitcoin forward with payments. I think it's the most promising method of getting bitcoin into the mainstream.

SilasX 14y ago

Bitcoin, like cash, does not prevent you from layering an escrow-like protocol on top of it; it's just that: a) it's not built-in by default; and b) it's a lot easier to get into business offering such a service (you just just need to have the trust of typical pairs of parties, rather than that PLUS all the stuff you'd have to put up with when setting up a whole new payment network). Using Bitcoin does not condemn you to being at the mercy of every merchant you may ever buy from. (FWIW, the above is why I don't understand the excessive promotion of "OMG LOL no chargebacks FTW!")

javert 14y ago
> (FWIW, the above is why I don't understand the excessive promotion of "OMG LOL no chargebacks FTW!") That flexibility is great. I'd be perfectly happy to buy from a lot of merchants that I trust (say, Amazon.com) without the ability to chargeback. That will lower costs for them, which will be passed on to the consumer (if the overall market is competitive). OTOH, merchants that aren't widely trusted may "have" to allow customers to purchase using an escrow-like service that allows chargebacks. In fact, maybe the same merchant could offer both options; you pay a tiny bit more for escrow.
- MichaelApproved 14y ago
  Good point. I trust Amazon enough to complete a purchase with Bitcoin. I think the term escrow would be too confusing for most customers but that'll probably work out as the platform develops.
  - SilasX 14y ago
    I meant "escrow-like" in the sense that PayPal and credit cards (with their evil chargebacks!) are escrow-like: you don't use the term, you just know that you have recourse if you're stiffed and that the payments are reversible. The difference is that you don't have to be as big (or as versed in financial regulation) to provide such a service: if you're trusted among the gambling community, you can provide "PayPal with Bitcoins" for them, because they trust you. If you're trusted among arts and crafts dealers and their customers, you can be the trusted party that enables chargebacks on Bitcoin in that area. Etc.

celticninja 14y ago

Accepting bit coin means reduced chance of fraud, so the merchant can offer a price reduction for payment in bitcoin. If I am selling iPhones and accepting PayPal then I have to charge legitimate customers more to cover fraud by dodgy customers.

Tichy 14y ago

Uh, as a customer I have had lots of problems with PayPal, too. They are not only a problem for vendors.