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As a merchant, it could hypothetically be easier or cheaper to deal with Bitcoin than other currencies online. (For example, note how aggravating/risky PayPal i

by javert 14y ago

As a merchant, it could hypothetically be easier or cheaper to deal with Bitcoin than other currencies online. (For example, note how aggravating/risky PayPal is.) As a person who wants to hedge against inflation or hyperinflation, it has a fixed total supply and can't be directly manipulated by the government (nor does its value depend on the government's credibility). As a speculator, there is the _possibility_ of making huge profits if you go ahead and get in early. As a person who is afraid of government power, it _could_ take away a lot of the government's power if widely adopted. (If everything is "cash," they can't really tax you accurately; and with Bitcoin, they can't just print more money.) It would be really nice if the US government had to choose between, say, multiple decade+ occupations in the Middle East vs. spending on other things. As a regular spender, there is the _possibility_ of easy digital transactions with less overhead expense (e.g. swipe your smartphone to pay for something, _without_, say, VISA taking off the top... though probably it would be some bitcoin processor taking (less) off the top). A different way of looking at it is: it's basically analogous to gold, except easy to transmit, but not impervious to apocalypse or regulatory action that would take down the Internet. Basically everything I said above is an implication of this way to look at it. People who are slightly bullish on gold ought to be extremely bullish about Bitcoin, IMO, if they have the technical understanding to believe that it works (I do, and it does).

MichaelApproved 14y ago
"As a merchant, it could hypothetically be easier or cheaper to deal with Bitcoin than other currencies online. (For example, note how aggravating/risky PayPal is.)" As a customer, I don't care about how aggravating/risky PayPal is to you. I also don't care that you have trouble with any other merchant account. I'm going to use the payment option that gives me the most protection and is most convenient to me. Credit card companies and PayPal allow me to dispute charges for unsatisfactory service. Even though I've rarely used that in my life, it's a huge reassurance! As I understand it, Bitcoin is like a cash transaction with very little recourse for the customer. Once the transaction is complete, you can't reverse it (I'm still learning about it so please correct me if I'm wrong). There could come a day when a middle man comes between the merchant and customer to give customer protection but then you're pretty much in the same boat as we are now. Note: I'm also a merchant, so I know the pains of PayPal and merchant accounts. Just reminding you to look at it from the customer perspective.
- coopdog 14y ago
  How about this one, whenever I have to buy anything in USD (which is a lot, I only have AUD), I have the privilege of paying 4% more than the listed price due to currency exchange spread. Bitcoin would give me a 4% discount on everything, even still considering merchant gateways take another 1-2% from the merchant, for a 6% total. The merchant gateway might not get to keep that 4%, it might even be eaten up by hedging against currency fluctuations, but either way unifying everyone onto one currency would remove those risks and costs. Merchants would only need to convert back once a year at tax time to pay their government.
- javert 14y ago
  Supposedly, savings for merchants can get passed on to customers. For example, I have heard that prices on bitcoinstore.com (which is a big consumer electronics site) are significantly cheaper than elsewhere. I haven't tried to compute that myself, so I don't know if it's actually true. Also, when paying with Bitcoin, I don't have to reveal my name to the merchant. That can matter a lot for certain things. For example, I wouldn't want to make any kind of "adult" purchases using my real name.
  - MichaelApproved 14y ago
    Bingo! Adult websites have been technological pioneers and they can probably help drive Bitcoin forward with payments. I think it's the most promising method of getting bitcoin into the mainstream.
- SilasX 14y ago
  Bitcoin, like cash, does not prevent you from layering an escrow-like protocol on top of it; it's just that: a) it's not built-in by default; and b) it's a lot easier to get into business offering such a service (you just just need to have the trust of typical pairs of parties, rather than that PLUS all the stuff you'd have to put up with when setting up a whole new payment network). Using Bitcoin does not condemn you to being at the mercy of every merchant you may ever buy from. (FWIW, the above is why I don't understand the excessive promotion of "OMG LOL no chargebacks FTW!")
hamidpalo 14y ago
As a merchant, it could hypothetically be easier or cheaper to deal with Bitcoin than other currencies online. (For example, note how aggravating/risky PayPal is.) It's not. Given the volatility of bitcoin you're taking on a lot of currency risk since the value of the bitcoins you just got for your widget can change a lot in a few days. The extra cost of conversion and/or hedging is not worth it. Especially when you consider all the other problems that bitcoin has.
- javert 14y ago
  There are bitcoin payment processors that allow customers to pay in BTC, and deposit the money in the merchant's account as USD immediately, thereby solving this problem (with a price). I don't know what the state of the art is here, but presumably, that price is going to approach zero, since this is a competitive space, which is not the case with traditional payment processing.

by javert 14y ago

MichaelApproved 14y ago

"As a merchant, it could hypothetically be easier or cheaper to deal with Bitcoin than other currencies online. (For example, note how aggravating/risky PayPal is.)" As a customer, I don't care about how aggravating/risky PayPal is to you. I also don't care that you have trouble with any other merchant account. I'm going to use the payment option that gives me the most protection and is most convenient to me. Credit card companies and PayPal allow me to dispute charges for unsatisfactory service. Even though I've rarely used that in my life, it's a huge reassurance! As I understand it, Bitcoin is like a cash transaction with very little recourse for the customer. Once the transaction is complete, you can't reverse it (I'm still learning about it so please correct me if I'm wrong). There could come a day when a middle man comes between the merchant and customer to give customer protection but then you're pretty much in the same boat as we are now. Note: I'm also a merchant, so I know the pains of PayPal and merchant accounts. Just reminding you to look at it from the customer perspective.

coopdog 14y ago
How about this one, whenever I have to buy anything in USD (which is a lot, I only have AUD), I have the privilege of paying 4% more than the listed price due to currency exchange spread. Bitcoin would give me a 4% discount on everything, even still considering merchant gateways take another 1-2% from the merchant, for a 6% total. The merchant gateway might not get to keep that 4%, it might even be eaten up by hedging against currency fluctuations, but either way unifying everyone onto one currency would remove those risks and costs. Merchants would only need to convert back once a year at tax time to pay their government.
javert 14y ago
Supposedly, savings for merchants can get passed on to customers. For example, I have heard that prices on bitcoinstore.com (which is a big consumer electronics site) are significantly cheaper than elsewhere. I haven't tried to compute that myself, so I don't know if it's actually true. Also, when paying with Bitcoin, I don't have to reveal my name to the merchant. That can matter a lot for certain things. For example, I wouldn't want to make any kind of "adult" purchases using my real name.
- MichaelApproved 14y ago
  Bingo! Adult websites have been technological pioneers and they can probably help drive Bitcoin forward with payments. I think it's the most promising method of getting bitcoin into the mainstream.
SilasX 14y ago
Bitcoin, like cash, does not prevent you from layering an escrow-like protocol on top of it; it's just that: a) it's not built-in by default; and b) it's a lot easier to get into business offering such a service (you just just need to have the trust of typical pairs of parties, rather than that PLUS all the stuff you'd have to put up with when setting up a whole new payment network). Using Bitcoin does not condemn you to being at the mercy of every merchant you may ever buy from. (FWIW, the above is why I don't understand the excessive promotion of "OMG LOL no chargebacks FTW!")

hamidpalo 14y ago

As a merchant, it could hypothetically be easier or cheaper to deal with Bitcoin than other currencies online. (For example, note how aggravating/risky PayPal is.) It's not. Given the volatility of bitcoin you're taking on a lot of currency risk since the value of the bitcoins you just got for your widget can change a lot in a few days. The extra cost of conversion and/or hedging is not worth it. Especially when you consider all the other problems that bitcoin has.

javert 14y ago
There are bitcoin payment processors that allow customers to pay in BTC, and deposit the money in the merchant's account as USD immediately, thereby solving this problem (with a price). I don't know what the state of the art is here, but presumably, that price is going to approach zero, since this is a competitive space, which is not the case with traditional payment processing.