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"Convincing? No. His other chart shows the mile range dipped below zero, which would indicate the car could not move. " Wow, I wish I could be as sloppy and aw

by JPKab 14y ago

"Convincing? No. His other chart shows the mile range dipped below zero, which would indicate the car could not move. " Wow, I wish I could be as sloppy and awful at my job as these journalists are. Had he actually bothered to truly read the response he is commenting on, he would see that Musk states that, when the car's range dips below zero, it is running on reserve power. It takes some miles after "zero" for the car to actually stop moving. What a hack. There is truly nothing worse than reading something by someone who has no education in comprehending quantitative data try to critique it. However, I do agree with his statement on the climate control. That was something I noticed when I read Musk's response. Clearly, the Broder turned the heat down, just not as early as he thought/claimed.

deletes 14y ago
I was written by a woman actually. :) Can I add on argument 6.: >>No. That wasn't the point of the article. Broder wanted to see how the car would do on a long range road trip relying on Tesla's two official Supercharger stations. << Ok, he wanted to rely on only official stations, but did he really have to completely discharge the car? Why couldn't he just stop and charge when he was super low at any normal charge station, and explain in the article that the two supercharge stations, failed? Well that's because then he couldn't post a nice article titled >>Stalled Out on Tesla’s Electric Highway<<
- JPKab 14y ago
  Yeah, I've seen journalists trying to defend Broder, acting as if he had zero incentive to have the car die on him. Funny how they say that, yet the article went to the front page of virtually ever link aggreagator out there, while glowing reviews are old news and are thus ignored. Broder knew it, and he wanted the car to die. We all know that. What is in debate here is to what degree he went to make the vehicle die that differs from what an average driver who wants to get to point B would have done.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
davidiach 14y ago
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Broder might not have wanted to "be evil". He might be like the guy who doesn't actually want to hurt the company he is working for but still spends all his day playing games at work. Given that his job was to write an accurate review, the fact that he didn't really want to wait until the car is fully charged and was bored driving the car at normal speed and so on, we can say he did a poor job with the review.
- grecy 14y ago
  > Given that his job was to write an accurate review Why do you assume that? His job was to attract readership and hits for the NYT. Nothing does that better than controversy.
  - taligent 14y ago
    The New York Times is not some Murdoch trashy paper that deals with gossip and controversy. The integrity of their work is important because that is what is keeping the paper alive whilst the others are falling by the way side. Maybe you should actually try reading it sometime.
    - rhizome 14y ago
      Pace your sense of the NY Times motivations, I offer Judy Miller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Miller#New_York_Times_career:_2002.E2.80.932005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Miller#New_York_Times_ca...
      - taligent 14y ago
        I am well aware of Judy Miller and the many other occasions where their work has been dreadful. But we are talking about a paper that has been around 150+ years. My point was that they aren't the type of paper who writes flamebait articles just to get more online hits.
        14y ago
DanBC 14y ago
Broder turned the heat up before turning the heat down. But he didn't mention turning the heat up; he only mentions having to suffer with a cold cabin.
- ceejayoz 14y ago
  Also, that's the heater setting, not the cabin temperature. I can set my car's internal heat setting to 50 degrees after getting it nice and toasty, and as long as I don't turn the A/C on it's going to stay warm for quite some time.
  - sk5t 14y ago
    Quite a few newer cars don't draw a distinction between running the heater or A/C: you just set a desired temperature, and the climate control system figures out what to do based on internal and exterior conditions. (Whether this is a good approach for a car's climate control system is another question, however.)
    - ceejayoz 14y ago
      I doubt the Tesla does that. If it did, Musk would've said something along the lines of "setting the cabin temp to 50 kicked on the A/C".
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
taligent 14y ago
> someone who has no education in comprehending quantitative You need to a degree to understand a pretty basic line graph ? Give me a break. People on here (and in the article's comments) need to stop acting like sanctimonious assholes. Electric cars are not some advanced technology that only the precious genius of Musk and IT nerds can comprehend. The fact is that the truth seems to lie somewhere in the middle here. Big surprise.
- JPKab 14y ago
  I get why you're irritated, but when I say "education" I don't mean necessarily a degree. I mean just some fundamental, working knowledge, whether that's from a degree, course, autodidactic, whatever. I did sound sanctimonious, but you know what? I didn't write a critique of someone's data dependent analysis. And if I lacked quantitative analysis experience, I wouldn't try to. But to be fair, I have no way of knowing the author lacks this experience. My intuition told me this with the numerous mistakes made in the article.
  - achompas 14y ago
    What mistakes? I work with data for a living, and I agreed with The Atlantic's points (having reached the same conclusions last night when the story broke). The particular mistake you cite results from a lack of domain knowledge, not analysis skills. The chart says "rated range remaining." If you're not familiar with EVs, you'd think that means the car will not move anymore. That assumption has zero to do with chart-reading abilities.
- dfxm12 14y ago
  It is unreasonable for someone to expect the truth from a journalist? This is an issue about integrity. If the truth does, in fact, lie in the middle, it doesn't matter if the NYT author had a hidden agenda or not, it matters that the NYT author did not tell the truth. I expect Tesla employees to be biased toward Tesla. I expect journalists to tell the truth.
brown9-2 14y ago
The author noticed her mistake and has since corrected it. Sometimes even the un-hackiest of us make mistakes.

by JPKab 14y ago

deletes 14y ago

I was written by a woman actually. :) Can I add on argument 6.: >>No. That wasn't the point of the article. Broder wanted to see how the car would do on a long range road trip relying on Tesla's two official Supercharger stations. << Ok, he wanted to rely on only official stations, but did he really have to completely discharge the car? Why couldn't he just stop and charge when he was super low at any normal charge station, and explain in the article that the two supercharge stations, failed? Well that's because then he couldn't post a nice article titled >>Stalled Out on Tesla’s Electric Highway<<

JPKab 14y ago
Yeah, I've seen journalists trying to defend Broder, acting as if he had zero incentive to have the car die on him. Funny how they say that, yet the article went to the front page of virtually ever link aggreagator out there, while glowing reviews are old news and are thus ignored. Broder knew it, and he wanted the car to die. We all know that. What is in debate here is to what degree he went to make the vehicle die that differs from what an average driver who wants to get to point B would have done.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

davidiach 14y ago

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Broder might not have wanted to "be evil". He might be like the guy who doesn't actually want to hurt the company he is working for but still spends all his day playing games at work. Given that his job was to write an accurate review, the fact that he didn't really want to wait until the car is fully charged and was bored driving the car at normal speed and so on, we can say he did a poor job with the review.

grecy 14y ago
> Given that his job was to write an accurate review Why do you assume that? His job was to attract readership and hits for the NYT. Nothing does that better than controversy.
- taligent 14y ago
  The New York Times is not some Murdoch trashy paper that deals with gossip and controversy. The integrity of their work is important because that is what is keeping the paper alive whilst the others are falling by the way side. Maybe you should actually try reading it sometime.
  - rhizome 14y ago
    Pace your sense of the NY Times motivations, I offer Judy Miller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Miller#New_York_Times_career:_2002.E2.80.932005 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Miller#New_York_Times_ca...
    - taligent 14y ago
      I am well aware of Judy Miller and the many other occasions where their work has been dreadful. But we are talking about a paper that has been around 150+ years. My point was that they aren't the type of paper who writes flamebait articles just to get more online hits.
      - 14y ago

DanBC 14y ago

Broder turned the heat up before turning the heat down. But he didn't mention turning the heat up; he only mentions having to suffer with a cold cabin.

ceejayoz 14y ago
Also, that's the heater setting, not the cabin temperature. I can set my car's internal heat setting to 50 degrees after getting it nice and toasty, and as long as I don't turn the A/C on it's going to stay warm for quite some time.
- sk5t 14y ago
  Quite a few newer cars don't draw a distinction between running the heater or A/C: you just set a desired temperature, and the climate control system figures out what to do based on internal and exterior conditions. (Whether this is a good approach for a car's climate control system is another question, however.)
  - ceejayoz 14y ago
    I doubt the Tesla does that. If it did, Musk would've said something along the lines of "setting the cabin temp to 50 kicked on the A/C".
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

taligent 14y ago

> someone who has no education in comprehending quantitative You need to a degree to understand a pretty basic line graph ? Give me a break. People on here (and in the article's comments) need to stop acting like sanctimonious assholes. Electric cars are not some advanced technology that only the precious genius of Musk and IT nerds can comprehend. The fact is that the truth seems to lie somewhere in the middle here. Big surprise.

JPKab 14y ago
I get why you're irritated, but when I say "education" I don't mean necessarily a degree. I mean just some fundamental, working knowledge, whether that's from a degree, course, autodidactic, whatever. I did sound sanctimonious, but you know what? I didn't write a critique of someone's data dependent analysis. And if I lacked quantitative analysis experience, I wouldn't try to. But to be fair, I have no way of knowing the author lacks this experience. My intuition told me this with the numerous mistakes made in the article.
- achompas 14y ago
  What mistakes? I work with data for a living, and I agreed with The Atlantic's points (having reached the same conclusions last night when the story broke). The particular mistake you cite results from a lack of domain knowledge, not analysis skills. The chart says "rated range remaining." If you're not familiar with EVs, you'd think that means the car will not move anymore. That assumption has zero to do with chart-reading abilities.
dfxm12 14y ago
It is unreasonable for someone to expect the truth from a journalist? This is an issue about integrity. If the truth does, in fact, lie in the middle, it doesn't matter if the NYT author had a hidden agenda or not, it matters that the NYT author did not tell the truth. I expect Tesla employees to be biased toward Tesla. I expect journalists to tell the truth.

brown9-2 14y ago

The author noticed her mistake and has since corrected it. Sometimes even the un-hackiest of us make mistakes.