3 ms·

I don't get it. A legally binding contract was signed before they took on the job, right? Doesn't that offer legal protection?

ceejayoz 14y ago
Assuming you can afford a lawyer. In this case, the developer's apparently in Europe, making that even more difficult.
- digitalengineer 14y ago
  Ah thank you. I live next to Germany (Holland) and know the German developers to be very stict, precise and 'grundlich' and to have an insurance against legal costs. Looks like the one thing they forgot was to stop working after they didn't get paid the first time. They trusted the client and got taken to the cleaners. I understand why they took the website / domain down. At least now everyone knows about it and it's the only thing left... Not professional no, but understandable.
mgkimsal 14y ago
And 'legal' protection means waiting years in courts, then potentially years more to collect on that judgement (assuming you actually win). I don't know the story behind this, but they may have already waited months before taking this sort of action. And as someone else said - really? An SF-based company contracted with someone in Germany to do their website? Seems to be they were doing this on purpose, to avoid paying. I had a similar situation with someone in NYC who didn't pay - found out later his company had a habit of doing this to small contractors out of state - you're telling me you can't find a web developer in NYC? In my case, yes, I sued - drove to NYC and filed a suit. It's been 4.5 years, and I still don't have a court date.
- chc 14y ago
  Does small claims court really take years? I haven't needed to directly interact with it before, but that was not my impression from acquaintances who have to go there quite often.
  - mgkimsal 14y ago
    "small claims" generally only deals with issues under $5000
    - chc 14y ago
      Ah, I think around here it's $10000, but you're right that it looks like $5000 is normal. Good point.
  - mratzloff 14y ago
    It's not small claims unless this consultant did something wrong.
  - oijaf888 14y ago
    Also would he have to file it in Germany where he is located or in SF where the client is? If its in Germany how does he enforce a judgement?
R_Edward 14y ago
A contract is kind of like a speed limit sign. It may specify behaviors that are in violation, but it has no power on its own to enforce itself. About all it's really good for is to describe for a third party--a judge--the agreement between the signatories at the time they executed the contract. Even if one party to a legally binding contract sues another for failure to discharge his contractual responsibilities, and convinces a judge that a remedy is in order, there's still no guarantee that they'll ever see the responsibility discharged or the remedy paid. In other words, getting a judgment in your favor is easy; getting a collection from the offender is a whole 'nother thing.
- jessaustin 14y ago
  Yeah if you can't collect your invoice then collecting your judgment might also be a challenge. Unfortunately there is no real property involved to which a mechanic's lien could be attached. This is probably the best thing this guy could have done short of getting paid up front, or setting up some sort of escrow.

ceejayoz 14y ago

Assuming you can afford a lawyer. In this case, the developer's apparently in Europe, making that even more difficult.

digitalengineer 14y ago
Ah thank you. I live next to Germany (Holland) and know the German developers to be very stict, precise and 'grundlich' and to have an insurance against legal costs. Looks like the one thing they forgot was to stop working after they didn't get paid the first time. They trusted the client and got taken to the cleaners. I understand why they took the website / domain down. At least now everyone knows about it and it's the only thing left... Not professional no, but understandable.

mgkimsal 14y ago

And 'legal' protection means waiting years in courts, then potentially years more to collect on that judgement (assuming you actually win). I don't know the story behind this, but they may have already waited months before taking this sort of action. And as someone else said - really? An SF-based company contracted with someone in Germany to do their website? Seems to be they were doing this on purpose, to avoid paying. I had a similar situation with someone in NYC who didn't pay - found out later his company had a habit of doing this to small contractors out of state - you're telling me you can't find a web developer in NYC? In my case, yes, I sued - drove to NYC and filed a suit. It's been 4.5 years, and I still don't have a court date.

chc 14y ago
Does small claims court really take years? I haven't needed to directly interact with it before, but that was not my impression from acquaintances who have to go there quite often.
- mgkimsal 14y ago
  "small claims" generally only deals with issues under $5000
  - chc 14y ago
    Ah, I think around here it's $10000, but you're right that it looks like $5000 is normal. Good point.
- mratzloff 14y ago
  It's not small claims unless this consultant did something wrong.
- oijaf888 14y ago
  Also would he have to file it in Germany where he is located or in SF where the client is? If its in Germany how does he enforce a judgement?

R_Edward 14y ago

A contract is kind of like a speed limit sign. It may specify behaviors that are in violation, but it has no power on its own to enforce itself. About all it's really good for is to describe for a third party--a judge--the agreement between the signatories at the time they executed the contract. Even if one party to a legally binding contract sues another for failure to discharge his contractual responsibilities, and convinces a judge that a remedy is in order, there's still no guarantee that they'll ever see the responsibility discharged or the remedy paid. In other words, getting a judgment in your favor is easy; getting a collection from the offender is a whole 'nother thing.

jessaustin 14y ago
Yeah if you can't collect your invoice then collecting your judgment might also be a challenge. Unfortunately there is no real property involved to which a mechanic's lien could be attached. This is probably the best thing this guy could have done short of getting paid up front, or setting up some sort of escrow.