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Maybe I am being naive(going to assume I am), and i admittedly have never used HipChat. But could someone explain to me what this offers over say setting up you

Maybe I am being naive(going to assume I am), and i admittedly have never used HipChat. But could someone explain to me what this offers over say setting up your own XMPP or IRC server and using that?

johns 14y ago
Among other things, not having to set up your own XMPP or IRC server.
- dreamdu5t 14y ago
  If you can't setup an IRC or XMPP server, then I don't think you should call yourself a software engineer. If you're a scrappy startup, you sure as hell better be able to setup an IRC server. And no... it doesn't take more than an hour to spin up an EC2 instance and setup inspircd as a private server.
  - pbiggar 14y ago
    If you're a scrappy startup, you better not have engineers wasting time setting up servers when there are great hosted products out there.
    - __david__ 14y ago
      I hear what you're saying, but, come on! apt-get install ejabberd 5 minutes of conf file tweaking and you're done. Seriously that's it! I did this about 8 years ago and haven't touched my setup since. There's pretty much zero maintenance to do with an XMPP server.
      - pilif 14y ago
        Do you get file sharing, easy group chat, @mentions across rooms, public temporary invites to customers into internal channels, very easy github and zendesk integration and, the killer feature for me, a searchable archive over all conversations? I'm sure you can do all of these with ejabberd and some additional external tools, but setting all these components up goes way beyond just apt-get'ing the software. Now, you might not need some (or all) of the additional features, so ejabberd is the perfect solution for you, but you can't jump to the conclusion that because you don't need a feature, nobody does. I'm a quite new HipChat customer - we were using skype before, but the indexed archive is a total killer feature for me and already helped me and my coworkers a lot as it helps us to learn from conversations between other people, thus reducing the amount of stuff that has to be asked multiple times. For me, that's totally worth the $2 per user per month.
      - pbiggar 14y ago
        What happens when ec2 shuts down the machine with jabber on it? When there's a memory spike in the middle of your vacation and no-one can send messages? Etc, etc, etc
        __david__ 14y ago
        You turn the machine back on? Switch to a server provider that doesn't randomly shut your machines down? What do you do when hipchat's severs are down? Twiddle your thumbs and wait for it to magically come back? At least if it's your server you can actively fix it instead of waiting for someone else to do it…
        pbiggar 14y ago
        I dont think you do get what I'm saying, as we seem to be arguing pros and cons of hosted and managed services.
dreamdu5t 14y ago
It makes everyone feel they're a hip startup. I mean, my IRC client has been doing drag and drop file sharing and image URL inline thumbnailing for... 10 years. The HipChat client is nice, but let's be real, it's just a nice client for a handicapped implementation of XMPP. I'm forced to use HipChat at work and use Adium to connect. I've even got the emoticon set, and message styles to match. They can't even program a mobile app that reconnects me automatically (unless that's changed recently).
lmm 14y ago
Not having to maintain your own server. Slightly better integration with other things (e.g. messages sent when you're offline can be emailed to you) - nothing you couldn't do with a bunch of client plugins, but it's there and set up for you already. A very nicely polished in-browser client, nicer even than irccloud, which makes it much easier for non-technical folks to use.
- mcantelon 14y ago
  There are lots of open IRC servers on which you can create password protected rooms. That plus Google Docs /Drive works great for small companies. For larger companies, however, I can see why something like Hipchat could be useful.
powdahound 14y ago
The cost to setting up and maintaining your own server and emulating many of the more modern HipChat features (drag+drop file sharing, archived/searchable history, mobile push notifications) is not trivial. Most companies find it far cheaper to spend money on a service than roll their own in house (see also: GitHub, UserVoice, hosted WordPress, etc). Also, nontechnical people are often not very comfortable using IRC/XMPP.
- dreamdu5t 14y ago
  The account manager at my company takes offense to this. Sorry, but even "nontechnical" people have setup mIRC when they were 14.
  - bnchrch 14y ago
    I'm sorry but I'd classify quite a few of my peers as non-technical and even as 20-somethings they don't even know what IRC is.
    - dguaraglia 14y ago
      Some of my technical peers don't have the slightest idea what IRC is (23, 25 and 26 year olds, doing software development for a living)
  - potatolicious 14y ago
    HipChat is more than an IRC server - it's a fully searchable web-based chat archival system, as well as a file transmission and sharing app backed by S3. It's also fully mobile-compatible and will do proper message routing to multiple devices owned by the same user, as well as temporary message caching/retry if your device is unreachable when a message is sent. etc etc. The list goes on. None of it impossible to replicate in-house, but I dare a non-technical person to replicate HipChat's stack.
    - easytiger 14y ago
      at that point you might as well get google apps for business.
anthemcg 14y ago
Its fairly stable, desktop and web clients, accessible for non-tech members of the company, decent UI, various API hooks and hubot access, easier and faster to get up and running/ maintain then a home rolled XMPP/IRC. If you just need a functional company chat client, its solid.
pbiggar 14y ago
One major difference is that it maintains persistent state - so when I log back in I see all the history and conversations from when I was logged out.
- subpixel 14y ago
  I've never really had a thorough introduction to IRC. Is it correct to assume that it's 100% ephemeral, that all conversations, questions, answers are gone when you log out? If that's the case, I'm puzzled as to why it would maintain so much traction when the record of communication can be so valuable (e.g. people searching the log vs asking a question that has been answered many times... )
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - potatolicious 14y ago
    It's common for people to log channels - either directly via the server or via a bot that sits in the room and just records everything. Logs can be exposed via various web frontends, most of which are pretty limited feature-wise. Most IRC clients do not log out of the box, so direct messages from other users are easily lost unless you go out of your way to make sure - the server does not do this logging for you.
    - dreamdu5t 14y ago
      Both Pidgin and Adium log IRC out-of-the-box, by default.
  - rurounijones 14y ago
    The Quassel IRC client is actually split into two pieces. The server module which actually connects to, and interacts with, the IRC server. The client portion which connects to, and interacts with, the quassel server. Most people just use "Quassel" as a simple desktop app in which case both modules are merged and it acts just like a normal IRC client. However you can also install the server module on a server somewhere in which case it stays connected to the IRC server, buffering chats etc. You can then connect to it with the client part of quassel which is installed on your local desktop, which you close it all you are doing is closing the client module. I really like that design, a good separation of concerns allows it.
davidp 14y ago
The killer feature is that nontechnical Mac and Windows users can click a link emailed from anyone on their team who is already using the app, and get seamless group chat across platforms, without calling the IT department to set up a server and/or open firewall ports, or committing someone on the team to managing anything XMPP-related. It just works. Even Linux folks can participate with additional work (e.g. dozens of packages to install if you're running Ubuntu 64, since Adobe AIR is 32-bit only; annoying). That said, I agree that the barrier to entry is pretty low.

johns 14y ago

Among other things, not having to set up your own XMPP or IRC server.

dreamdu5t 14y ago
If you can't setup an IRC or XMPP server, then I don't think you should call yourself a software engineer. If you're a scrappy startup, you sure as hell better be able to setup an IRC server. And no... it doesn't take more than an hour to spin up an EC2 instance and setup inspircd as a private server.
- pbiggar 14y ago
  If you're a scrappy startup, you better not have engineers wasting time setting up servers when there are great hosted products out there.
  - __david__ 14y ago
    I hear what you're saying, but, come on! apt-get install ejabberd 5 minutes of conf file tweaking and you're done. Seriously that's it! I did this about 8 years ago and haven't touched my setup since. There's pretty much zero maintenance to do with an XMPP server.
    - pilif 14y ago
      Do you get file sharing, easy group chat, @mentions across rooms, public temporary invites to customers into internal channels, very easy github and zendesk integration and, the killer feature for me, a searchable archive over all conversations? I'm sure you can do all of these with ejabberd and some additional external tools, but setting all these components up goes way beyond just apt-get'ing the software. Now, you might not need some (or all) of the additional features, so ejabberd is the perfect solution for you, but you can't jump to the conclusion that because you don't need a feature, nobody does. I'm a quite new HipChat customer - we were using skype before, but the indexed archive is a total killer feature for me and already helped me and my coworkers a lot as it helps us to learn from conversations between other people, thus reducing the amount of stuff that has to be asked multiple times. For me, that's totally worth the $2 per user per month.
    - pbiggar 14y ago
      What happens when ec2 shuts down the machine with jabber on it? When there's a memory spike in the middle of your vacation and no-one can send messages? Etc, etc, etc
      - __david__ 14y ago
        You turn the machine back on? Switch to a server provider that doesn't randomly shut your machines down? What do you do when hipchat's severs are down? Twiddle your thumbs and wait for it to magically come back? At least if it's your server you can actively fix it instead of waiting for someone else to do it…
        pbiggar 14y ago
        I dont think you do get what I'm saying, as we seem to be arguing pros and cons of hosted and managed services.

dreamdu5t 14y ago

It makes everyone feel they're a hip startup. I mean, my IRC client has been doing drag and drop file sharing and image URL inline thumbnailing for... 10 years. The HipChat client is nice, but let's be real, it's just a nice client for a handicapped implementation of XMPP. I'm forced to use HipChat at work and use Adium to connect. I've even got the emoticon set, and message styles to match. They can't even program a mobile app that reconnects me automatically (unless that's changed recently).

lmm 14y ago

Not having to maintain your own server. Slightly better integration with other things (e.g. messages sent when you're offline can be emailed to you) - nothing you couldn't do with a bunch of client plugins, but it's there and set up for you already. A very nicely polished in-browser client, nicer even than irccloud, which makes it much easier for non-technical folks to use.

mcantelon 14y ago
There are lots of open IRC servers on which you can create password protected rooms. That plus Google Docs /Drive works great for small companies. For larger companies, however, I can see why something like Hipchat could be useful.

powdahound 14y ago

The cost to setting up and maintaining your own server and emulating many of the more modern HipChat features (drag+drop file sharing, archived/searchable history, mobile push notifications) is not trivial. Most companies find it far cheaper to spend money on a service than roll their own in house (see also: GitHub, UserVoice, hosted WordPress, etc). Also, nontechnical people are often not very comfortable using IRC/XMPP.

dreamdu5t 14y ago
The account manager at my company takes offense to this. Sorry, but even "nontechnical" people have setup mIRC when they were 14.
- bnchrch 14y ago
  I'm sorry but I'd classify quite a few of my peers as non-technical and even as 20-somethings they don't even know what IRC is.
  - dguaraglia 14y ago
    Some of my technical peers don't have the slightest idea what IRC is (23, 25 and 26 year olds, doing software development for a living)
- potatolicious 14y ago
  HipChat is more than an IRC server - it's a fully searchable web-based chat archival system, as well as a file transmission and sharing app backed by S3. It's also fully mobile-compatible and will do proper message routing to multiple devices owned by the same user, as well as temporary message caching/retry if your device is unreachable when a message is sent. etc etc. The list goes on. None of it impossible to replicate in-house, but I dare a non-technical person to replicate HipChat's stack.
  - easytiger 14y ago
    at that point you might as well get google apps for business.

anthemcg 14y ago

Its fairly stable, desktop and web clients, accessible for non-tech members of the company, decent UI, various API hooks and hubot access, easier and faster to get up and running/ maintain then a home rolled XMPP/IRC. If you just need a functional company chat client, its solid.

pbiggar 14y ago

One major difference is that it maintains persistent state - so when I log back in I see all the history and conversations from when I was logged out.

subpixel 14y ago
I've never really had a thorough introduction to IRC. Is it correct to assume that it's 100% ephemeral, that all conversations, questions, answers are gone when you log out? If that's the case, I'm puzzled as to why it would maintain so much traction when the record of communication can be so valuable (e.g. people searching the log vs asking a question that has been answered many times... )
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- potatolicious 14y ago
  It's common for people to log channels - either directly via the server or via a bot that sits in the room and just records everything. Logs can be exposed via various web frontends, most of which are pretty limited feature-wise. Most IRC clients do not log out of the box, so direct messages from other users are easily lost unless you go out of your way to make sure - the server does not do this logging for you.
  - dreamdu5t 14y ago
    Both Pidgin and Adium log IRC out-of-the-box, by default.
- rurounijones 14y ago
  The Quassel IRC client is actually split into two pieces. The server module which actually connects to, and interacts with, the IRC server. The client portion which connects to, and interacts with, the quassel server. Most people just use "Quassel" as a simple desktop app in which case both modules are merged and it acts just like a normal IRC client. However you can also install the server module on a server somewhere in which case it stays connected to the IRC server, buffering chats etc. You can then connect to it with the client part of quassel which is installed on your local desktop, which you close it all you are doing is closing the client module. I really like that design, a good separation of concerns allows it.

davidp 14y ago

The killer feature is that nontechnical Mac and Windows users can click a link emailed from anyone on their team who is already using the app, and get seamless group chat across platforms, without calling the IT department to set up a server and/or open firewall ports, or committing someone on the team to managing anything XMPP-related. It just works. Even Linux folks can participate with additional work (e.g. dozens of packages to install if you're running Ubuntu 64, since Adobe AIR is 32-bit only; annoying). That said, I agree that the barrier to entry is pretty low.