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Musk didn't disprove a thing. He's trying to manipulate the facts. The estimated range that Broder is referring to is the 90 mile estimate that the car display

by abalone 14y ago

Musk didn't disprove a thing. He's trying to manipulate the facts. The estimated range that Broder is referring to is the 90 mile estimate that the car displayed at the end of the first day, not the 32 miles it displayed the next morning. That is what he means when he says the car fell short of its range estimate by 2/3rds. He also states that the reason he proceeded in the morning with just a 32 mile range is that "Tesla’s experts said that pumping in a little energy would help restore the power lost overnight as a result of the cold weather, and after an hour they cleared me to resume the trip to Milford." In other words, Tesla TOLD HIM TO. Musk does not refute this. Tesla flunked the test due to cold weather energy loss. It's that simple. Superchargers alone cannot compensate for that. You still have to plug in overnight and take conservation measures on the road, or you may end up stranded. Musk can't change that no matter how hard he tries to distract you from the facts with "facts". (BTW, has anyone realized that Musk's "driving around in circles in front of the charging station" conspiracy theory doesn't even make any kind of sense? If the writer wanted to intentionally strand the car he'd do it on the road.)

stcredzero 14y ago
That's exactly what I'd suspect a clueless person would do if he were trying to intentionally damage the li-ion battery. (You should drain the cells directly, circumventing the charge controller, if you want to be sure.)
Sephr 14y ago
The estimated range assumes that the driver follows the car manual which says it should be plugged into a 120v outlet over night, which he neglected to do.
- abalone 14y ago
  So you're saying he's driving it wrong. Still a valid thing to criticize. Musk calls the Tesla "an electric car without compromises." Finding plugs and stringing extension cords at some random hotel in the woods so as not to get stranded is maybe a little bit of a compromise.
jellicle 14y ago
> He also states that the reason he proceeded in the morning with just a 32 mile range is that "Tesla’s experts said that pumping in a little energy would help restore the power lost overnight as a result of the cold weather, and after an hour they cleared me to resume the trip to Milford." In other words, Tesla TOLD HIM TO. Musk does not refute this. To quote from Musk: "The final leg of his trip was 61 miles and yet he disconnected the charge cable when the range display stated 32 miles. He did so expressly against the advice of Tesla personnel and in obvious violation of common sense." I'd say that is a refutation.
- danielweber 14y ago
  Yeah. We're now in a sad he-said-she-said situation, unless someone was recording phone calls. . . . hey, most customer services lines tell you that the call may be recorded? So maybe we do have that call.
thedufer 14y ago
> Tesla flunked the test due to cold weather energy loss. This might sound pedantic, but the logs don't actually show any overnight cold-weather energy loss. What they do show is that it costs more energy per mile until the battery heats back up. This makes a big difference when looking at the expected performance, because it means that it doesn't much matter how long you park it in the cold, only how cold it is when you start driving again. It looks like energy loss, because the system apparently knows that a low battery temp will cause the batteries to drain faster and compensates in the range estimate.
- lutusp 14y ago
  > This makes a big difference when looking at the expected performance, because it means that it doesn't much matter how long you park it in the cold, only how cold it is when you start driving again. Yes, unless you try to charge the battery while it's cold -- batteries aren't very efficient at absorbing a charge when they're cold. I'm speaking here about the basic physics, not the metering and software.
  - thedufer 14y ago
    This NYTimes article has been used as evidence against Tesla's claim that you can leave the car at an airport for a week and come back without having lost (much) charge, regardless of weather conditions. I merely intend to point out that due to an inaccuracy in interpreting the drop in range, this is not evidence against that claim.

by abalone 14y ago

stcredzero 14y ago

That's exactly what I'd suspect a clueless person would do if he were trying to intentionally damage the li-ion battery. (You should drain the cells directly, circumventing the charge controller, if you want to be sure.)

Sephr 14y ago

The estimated range assumes that the driver follows the car manual which says it should be plugged into a 120v outlet over night, which he neglected to do.

abalone 14y ago
So you're saying he's driving it wrong. Still a valid thing to criticize. Musk calls the Tesla "an electric car without compromises." Finding plugs and stringing extension cords at some random hotel in the woods so as not to get stranded is maybe a little bit of a compromise.

jellicle 14y ago

> He also states that the reason he proceeded in the morning with just a 32 mile range is that "Tesla’s experts said that pumping in a little energy would help restore the power lost overnight as a result of the cold weather, and after an hour they cleared me to resume the trip to Milford." In other words, Tesla TOLD HIM TO. Musk does not refute this. To quote from Musk: "The final leg of his trip was 61 miles and yet he disconnected the charge cable when the range display stated 32 miles. He did so expressly against the advice of Tesla personnel and in obvious violation of common sense." I'd say that is a refutation.

danielweber 14y ago
Yeah. We're now in a sad he-said-she-said situation, unless someone was recording phone calls. . . . hey, most customer services lines tell you that the call may be recorded? So maybe we do have that call.

thedufer 14y ago

> Tesla flunked the test due to cold weather energy loss. This might sound pedantic, but the logs don't actually show any overnight cold-weather energy loss. What they do show is that it costs more energy per mile until the battery heats back up. This makes a big difference when looking at the expected performance, because it means that it doesn't much matter how long you park it in the cold, only how cold it is when you start driving again. It looks like energy loss, because the system apparently knows that a low battery temp will cause the batteries to drain faster and compensates in the range estimate.

lutusp 14y ago
> This makes a big difference when looking at the expected performance, because it means that it doesn't much matter how long you park it in the cold, only how cold it is when you start driving again. Yes, unless you try to charge the battery while it's cold -- batteries aren't very efficient at absorbing a charge when they're cold. I'm speaking here about the basic physics, not the metering and software.
- thedufer 14y ago
  This NYTimes article has been used as evidence against Tesla's claim that you can leave the car at an airport for a week and come back without having lost (much) charge, regardless of weather conditions. I merely intend to point out that due to an inaccuracy in interpreting the drop in range, this is not evidence against that claim.