5 ms·

I've read this book a good 3 or 4 times and it never ceases to amaze me. Ender's Game is without a doubt Orson Scott Card's magnum opus and a must read for anyo

I've read this book a good 3 or 4 times and it never ceases to amaze me. Ender's Game is without a doubt Orson Scott Card's magnum opus and a must read for anyone remotely interested in science fiction. I always had an interest in the combat tactics employed in the book, and admired Ender's seemingly unlimited ability to innovate, but never realized it had such a concrete grounding in legitimate military tactical theory.

astrodust 14y ago
I used to like this book. Then I realized it's basically Twilight for teenaged boys and started to think about it more critically. Ender is an impossible creature and creates an archetype that cannot be lived up to. People make mistakes, it's what makes them learn, advance, succeed, become stronger. Ender is some kind of perverted ideal. The way this essay describes military strategies makes it seems like those running today's theaters are absolute idiots that simply smash one group of soldiers to another just like the British did in the 1800s. This is not the case. "Attrition theory" is not what's employed in individual battles, pawn-for-pawn style exchanges. The US Army, as an example, takes extremely low numbers of casualties with staggeringly high numbers of casualties inflicted. Most of these bold claims about Card's novel seem like fluff on closer examination. They're plot drivers for a novel and in that sense they bear a similarity to real-life examples. Nothing more.
- coffeedrinker 14y ago
  Life is difficult. For me, the point is to let yourself grow stronger to meet those challenges rather than giving up. I like to think that God is actually deliberately making things harder for me on/with purpose. Keeps me fighting.
- mgarfias 14y ago
  Stormin Norman's initial war plan for Iraq 1 was indeed attrition based. We were to land in Kuwait and beat the Iraqis back via blunt force. Cheney,secdef at the time, realized how bloody this would be, and pulled Boyd in from retirement to rewrite the war plan. The marines succeeded brilliantly with their part. The army did not, and concern for their flanks allowed the Iraqi army to escape.
  - kevin_rubyhouse 14y ago
    This is very interesting. What book did you read about this in?
    - mgarfias 14y ago
      http://www.amazon.com/Boyd-The-Fighter-Pilot-Changed/dp/0316796883/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360825205&sr=8-1&keywords=boyd http://www.amazon.com/Boyd-The-Fighter-Pilot-Changed/dp/0316...
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  Of course he is a perverted ideal. It's been a while, but didn't they insinuate he was genetically engineered or something along those lines? Besides, he is not without flaws. If you didn't notice them, maybe you weren't paying enough attention?
  - SatvikBeri 14y ago
    That's Bean. Ender and his siblings were simply the children of two very smart people.
- Cushman 14y ago
  Ender is profoundly not a role model. I think you may have missed something crucial there.
  - notb 14y ago
    I agree. Ultimately, he does all the things he does because the system is using him. Harry Potter is closer to a perverse ideal than Ender.
    - astrodust 14y ago
      The thing about Harry Potter is he makes mistakes, he has setbacks. It's not just win after win after improbable win.
      - notb 14y ago
        Spoiler alert: Ender commits xenocide just to prove his worth. Is that a win?
  - jackpirate 14y ago
    Except that in practice, he actually is a role model for a large number of people in the military.
    - Cushman 14y ago
      Well, yeah; "Shut up, do as you're told, and we'll succeed in exterminating those other people" is a lesson the military takes in a somewhat different light from the general public.
- hosh 14y ago
  So Ender's Shadow shows that the teachers running the game behind the scenes were playing a much deeper game, one designed to bring about the insights that Ender developed. That further, it was important that Ender developed them on his own so that he realize, he can never depend on doctrine handed down from the past, and so develop something from a fresh start. Besides, Ender's Game is simply the setup for Speaker of the Dead, a much more interesting book. To be fair. I read Ender's Game multiple times when I was younger. I have not yet read it again now that I have a better understanding of Sun Tzu's Art of War and the John Boyd biographies. I have no idea what I'd find if I read it again.
- Tichy 14y ago
  Aren't most heroes in books impossible creatures impossible to be lived up to? I still think there is a lot more content in Ender's Game than in Twilight. The message of Twilight is basically "be depressed and broody, and a shiny vampire with superpowers will fall eternally in love with you". In Ender's Game at least there are real problems and real solutions, even if perhaps it is unrealistic that a single guy could have come up with them. Then again, the book was written by a single person, so it is not completely unfeasible to have such thoughts and ideas.
- lotsofcows 14y ago
  "simply smash one group of soldiers to another" Wow, massive simplification of a highly effective discipline based strategy (nicked off the Romans).
- darkarmani 14y ago
  > Ender is an impossible creature and creates an archetype that cannot be lived up to. People make mistakes, it's what makes them learn, advance, succeed, become stronger. Ender is some kind of perverted ideal. Isn't that the point? It's the same as reading about the life of an amazing Olympic athlete. The book follows a prodigy military strategist -- shouldn't he be an archetype?

astrodust 14y ago

I used to like this book. Then I realized it's basically Twilight for teenaged boys and started to think about it more critically. Ender is an impossible creature and creates an archetype that cannot be lived up to. People make mistakes, it's what makes them learn, advance, succeed, become stronger. Ender is some kind of perverted ideal. The way this essay describes military strategies makes it seems like those running today's theaters are absolute idiots that simply smash one group of soldiers to another just like the British did in the 1800s. This is not the case. "Attrition theory" is not what's employed in individual battles, pawn-for-pawn style exchanges. The US Army, as an example, takes extremely low numbers of casualties with staggeringly high numbers of casualties inflicted. Most of these bold claims about Card's novel seem like fluff on closer examination. They're plot drivers for a novel and in that sense they bear a similarity to real-life examples. Nothing more.

coffeedrinker 14y ago
Life is difficult. For me, the point is to let yourself grow stronger to meet those challenges rather than giving up. I like to think that God is actually deliberately making things harder for me on/with purpose. Keeps me fighting.
mgarfias 14y ago
Stormin Norman's initial war plan for Iraq 1 was indeed attrition based. We were to land in Kuwait and beat the Iraqis back via blunt force. Cheney,secdef at the time, realized how bloody this would be, and pulled Boyd in from retirement to rewrite the war plan. The marines succeeded brilliantly with their part. The army did not, and concern for their flanks allowed the Iraqi army to escape.
- kevin_rubyhouse 14y ago
  This is very interesting. What book did you read about this in?
  - mgarfias 14y ago
    http://www.amazon.com/Boyd-The-Fighter-Pilot-Changed/dp/0316796883/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360825205&sr=8-1&keywords=boyd http://www.amazon.com/Boyd-The-Fighter-Pilot-Changed/dp/0316...
sliverstorm 14y ago
Of course he is a perverted ideal. It's been a while, but didn't they insinuate he was genetically engineered or something along those lines? Besides, he is not without flaws. If you didn't notice them, maybe you weren't paying enough attention?
- SatvikBeri 14y ago
  That's Bean. Ender and his siblings were simply the children of two very smart people.
Cushman 14y ago
Ender is profoundly not a role model. I think you may have missed something crucial there.
- notb 14y ago
  I agree. Ultimately, he does all the things he does because the system is using him. Harry Potter is closer to a perverse ideal than Ender.
  - astrodust 14y ago
    The thing about Harry Potter is he makes mistakes, he has setbacks. It's not just win after win after improbable win.
    - notb 14y ago
      Spoiler alert: Ender commits xenocide just to prove his worth. Is that a win?
- jackpirate 14y ago
  Except that in practice, he actually is a role model for a large number of people in the military.
  - Cushman 14y ago
    Well, yeah; "Shut up, do as you're told, and we'll succeed in exterminating those other people" is a lesson the military takes in a somewhat different light from the general public.
hosh 14y ago
So Ender's Shadow shows that the teachers running the game behind the scenes were playing a much deeper game, one designed to bring about the insights that Ender developed. That further, it was important that Ender developed them on his own so that he realize, he can never depend on doctrine handed down from the past, and so develop something from a fresh start. Besides, Ender's Game is simply the setup for Speaker of the Dead, a much more interesting book. To be fair. I read Ender's Game multiple times when I was younger. I have not yet read it again now that I have a better understanding of Sun Tzu's Art of War and the John Boyd biographies. I have no idea what I'd find if I read it again.
Tichy 14y ago
Aren't most heroes in books impossible creatures impossible to be lived up to? I still think there is a lot more content in Ender's Game than in Twilight. The message of Twilight is basically "be depressed and broody, and a shiny vampire with superpowers will fall eternally in love with you". In Ender's Game at least there are real problems and real solutions, even if perhaps it is unrealistic that a single guy could have come up with them. Then again, the book was written by a single person, so it is not completely unfeasible to have such thoughts and ideas.
lotsofcows 14y ago
"simply smash one group of soldiers to another" Wow, massive simplification of a highly effective discipline based strategy (nicked off the Romans).
darkarmani 14y ago
> Ender is an impossible creature and creates an archetype that cannot be lived up to. People make mistakes, it's what makes them learn, advance, succeed, become stronger. Ender is some kind of perverted ideal. Isn't that the point? It's the same as reading about the life of an amazing Olympic athlete. The book follows a prodigy military strategist -- shouldn't he be an archetype?