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I Was a Political Prisoner at Birth in North Korea
- meric 14y agoIt's different to this one http://www.utsalumni.org/news/how-one-man-escaped-from-a-north-korean-prison-camp-3549/ http://www.utsalumni.org/news/how-one-man-escaped-from-a-nor... The latter tells the story of how he betrayed his mother and brother. It is omitted from the posted link. Also in the latter story, he discovered Park died before he escaped, not the other way around.
- Osmium 14y agoI just read this whole story, and I can scarcely comprehend it's real. I just don't quite know what to say. What are you meant to do when you read something like that?
- regnum 14y agoHis biography titled Escape from Camp 14 is well worth a listen to get more details. http://www.audible.com/pd/ref=sr_1_1?asin=B007MHIXJY&qid=1360803298&sr=1-1 http://www.audible.com/pd/ref=sr_1_1?asin=B007MHIXJY&qid...
- martswite 14y agoI am currently reading this due to another post about this same guy a couple of weeks back. I would highly recommend it, though it is truly upsetting, I have to keep reminding myself that what this man went through was/is real. OP link does seem to gloss over some of the finer details explained in the book.
- deliminator 14y agoOne possibility is to inform yourself more. FYI The best resource I found so far is http://www.dailynk.com/english/ http://www.dailynk.com/english/ . At least one more story like the OP's can be found here http://www.dailynk.com/english/sub_list_last.php?page=1&cataId=nk02800 http://www.dailynk.com/english/sub_list_last.php?page=1&... There is an organization that tries to do something about this http://libertyinnorthkorea.org/ http://libertyinnorthkorea.org/ . They have some videos as well that are worth watching http://www.youtube.com/user/linkglobal http://www.youtube.com/user/linkglobal
- InclinedPlane 14y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Hyun_Hui http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Hyun_Hui
- atsaloli 14y agoThe wrong thing to do is nothing. I encourage you to work out what you could do that could help this situation, anything, and do it.
- bfe 14y agoI get that feeling every time I read about North Korea. At the very least, the ongoing tragedy there thrives in the absence of attention. Imagine how much outcry and public pressure for action there would be if there were video footage of these concentration camps on the news every day. At the very least, helping give it more exposure and awareness could help build momentum for more meaningful action.
- belorn 14y agoOne reaction I get is a lack of fear of their nuclear tests. Rather, I welcome them as each time it might be enough to push larger countries to actually fix the situation.
- atsaloli 14y ago"When evil men plot, good men must plan. When evil men burn and bomb, good men must build and bind. When evil men shout ugly words of hatred, good men must commit to the glories of love. When evil men would seek to perpetuate an unjust status quo, good men must bring into being a real order of justice." Martin Luther King
- kiba 14y agoAll true stories become distorted through repeated retelling. So the true stories are the one that is told the earliest. Better is the one that is told on camera since computers do not have mechanisms for distortion. That's not our fault, but simply how our memories work. Here's one article on memory distortion. http://www.spring.org.uk/2008/02/how-memories-are-distorted-and-invented.php http://www.spring.org.uk/2008/02/how-memories-are-distorted-...
- saraid216 14y ago> computers do not have mechanisms for distortion Yet.
- btilly 14y agoA decade ago I worked with someone with the most amazing personal story. He was born in a cattle car on the way to a concentration camp in WW 2. He was a very, very religious Jew in all respects except one - he didn't believe in God. It was an interesting combination.
- arcatek 14y agoI don't understand, how is it even possible ?
- btilly 14y agoHow is what possible? The Germans put all Jews on, even pregnant ones. His mother gave birth in the cattle car. He was lucky. They survived. Most of his relatives did not. He is an observant Jew. Follows all dietary laws, goes to Temple, observes all religious holidays, etc. He does this as a strong assertion that he is a Jew, he will not let anyone take that away from him. Ever. He just doesn't happen to believe in God.
- tomjen3 14y agoThe Germans murdered all children and pregnant women. How could a newborn survive?
- rdl 14y agoThe concentration camps weren't uniform, and even within the camps, some people were able to survive for a while and transfer. The system also varied a lot through time.
- krenoten 14y agoBecause they obviously did not. Camps varied in cruelty quite a bit. It's worth learning about how a modern society like Weimar Germany could have been influenced to take the course of action that it did. Similar things continue to happen all over the world, and education is important in combating it.
- deliminator 14y agoGoogle Tech Talk about Shin's story http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms4NIB6xroc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms4NIB6xroc
- dfc 14y agoSide Bar: Can anyone provide some context/background/explanation about the north korean name / south korean name?
- jevinskie 14y agoI wonder if the reason is related to the dialect differences between North and South Korean. I recall that the North Korean dialect is "older".
- alxndr 14y agoNot sure how much this explains about names in particular, but... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North%E2%80%93South_differences_in_the_Korean_language http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North%E2%80%93South_differences...
- DavidChouinard 14y agoShin recounts his experience in this incredibly touching and thought-provoking 60 minutes interview: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50136263n http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50136263n Also, here are illustrations of a North Korean concentration camp by an escaped prison: http://imgur.com/a/648Mv http://imgur.com/a/648Mv. Incredibly alarming.
- jbm 14y agoI find it sad that after being basically treated like garbage by North Korean society, "defectors" (I hesitate to use that term due to the negative connotation, but can't think of anything else) like Shin wind up isolated within South Korean society. It reaches the point where more than 1/3rd want to leave SK.[1] That one cannot escape an accident of birth is a huge blemish on humanity. [1] http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20130207000854 http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20130207000854
- kamaal 14y agoWell its sad but not surprising. I mean look at it from a young South Korean's perspective. There is a huge economic and many be now even a cultural gap between them and the folks from the north. For somebody young in South Korea, a North Korean is somebody who shares his mother tongue in a different dialect- nothing much apart from that. By now North and South Korea are two very different countries, with many things being different and few things being common. When a refugee arrives they may not think of him/her as 'one of us'. More like some troubled person from the neighboring country who will dilute/be a burden on our culture economy.
- buro9 14y ago> That one cannot escape an accident of birth is a huge blemish on humanity. Succinctly summing up privilege, be it by skin colour, sex, disability, or inheriting wealth.
- unicornporn 14y agoSorry, but I didn't know how to react when the second question the interviewer asked was: did you know america existed? What kind of question is that considering this man's story?
- guelo 14y agoIt doesn't seem moral that the world doesn't invade North Korea and put an end to the insanity.
- tptacek 14y agoMore people would die if we did than if we don't. Seoul is one of the most densely populated cities in the world, and it's extremely close to the border.
- guelo 14y agoThat's what they've been saying for 60 years with no end in sight. The other consideration is that neither South Korea or China wants a flood of refugees. But I tend to think that if China wanted it could be done and over quickly and the rebuilding could be assisted by the whole world through the UN.
- tptacek 14y agoI agree, although I'm probably no better informed than you are, that a China resolved to the elimination of the DPRK would result in the elimination of the DPRK.
- bfe 14y agoConventional wisdom is that China prefers to maintain the status quo in North Korea as a buffer against American power. Xi Jinping hasn't really signaled yet whether he will change direction on that. Yesterday the White House specifically referred to America's "nuclear umbrella" over South Korea, which is unusually explicit wording, so hopefully they are raising the pressure on China to do more to intervene. I don't think the DPRK could persist if China withdrew its support. I try to imagine a scenario for the incoming administrations in China and South Korea, working in cooperation with the U.S., to convince the DPRK to peacefully transition to a normalized and open country.
- Zancarius 14y ago> I don't think the DPRK could persist if China withdrew its support. I believe this is correct. I've read reports that China provides the North with about half (or more) of its food. I'd imagine a substantial portion of that goes to feed NK's military. The only solution will very likely involve China, and I can't imagine that they'll go willingly. They may change their mind if NK lobs an atomic weapon at the South or at US interests (continental if they can reach; elsewhere if not), but I'm dubious even that might work. Assuming the North's military leadership doesn't completely lose its few remaining marbles, they might believe that nuclear proliferation within (in the form of many functional, working weapons) gains them sufficient bargaining power that they can do whatever they want. In that circumstance, it's plausible that they might wind up stepping on China's toes. Although, I highly doubt this would happen either. It's depressing because there's very little that we can do, and China is unlikely to help for reasons bfe cited. They've literally starved out the population that could potentially overthrow the regime from within, so save convincing some segment of their army to stage a coup, all we can do is wait. It also doesn't hurt to spread stories like this one far and wide. The only problem is that the majority of people outside the Koreas (particularly those within the US) just don't care. It doesn't affect them, so why bother?
- unimpressive 14y agoThis is a cool version. If the simple English was changed a little and the illustrations swapped for watercolor, this bone chilling tale could be packaged as a sort of pseudo-childrens book.
- scrumper 14y agoSomething like 'When the Wind Blows' by Raymond Briggs (most famous for writing 'The Snowman'.) It's extremely powerful. Your idea is excellent.
- patdennis 14y agoHow did he know to escape to China? How did he know how to get there? I'm genuinely curious.
- unimpressive 14y agohttp://www.utsalumni.org/news/how-one-man-escaped-from-a-north-korean-prison-camp-3549/ http://www.utsalumni.org/news/how-one-man-escaped-from-a-nor... Another version that explains more. SPOILER: Park told him about China. He didn't know how to get there.
- deliminator 14y agoHe answers that question from someone in the audience at about 55:25 in this Google Tech Talk. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms4NIB6xroc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms4NIB6xroc
- B0Z 14y agoAbsolutely nothing I've read in the last decade exacerbates a feeling of complete helplessness as much as this article (and 60 minutes video mentioned) does.
- notdrunkatall 14y agoThe fact that these exist today are a giant pockmark on the face of humanity.
- Ygg2 14y agoUsually tyrannies have a way of collapsing in on themselves. They weaken social fabric, breeding dissent and allowing other states/factor to jump in and conquer them.
- cabalamat 14y ago> Usually tyrannies have a way of collapsing in on themselves. Really? Pharonic Egypt lasted for 3000 years.
- reiichiroh 14y agoContrast this to the brit tour guide who went to North Korea over 100 times: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18g7z1/i_have_been_to_north_korea_over_100_times_ama/ http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/18g7z1/i_have_been_to_...
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- tterrace 14y agoThe book is available from amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0670023329/ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0670023329/ It's been on my list since I saw his interview on CNN.
- qschneier 14y agoThose who escaped from North Korea to China will be sent back by the Chinese government if found and possibly executed. They are literally the most miserable people on this planet. China could have become some west "North Korea" (China is at the west of North Korea) if American hadn't killed Chairman Mao's son during Korean War. For that I am really grateful to the US. Life is not easy but it could have been much worse.
- runn1ng 14y agohttp://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/books/escape-from-camp-14-by-blaine-harden.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/books/escape-from-camp-14-... “In writing this book, I have sometimes struggled to trust him,” Mr. Harden writes understandably in “Escape From Camp 14.” Mr. Harden tries to fathom a cryptic, troubled and not entirely sympathetic young man whose circumstances lend themselves to exaggeration. What’s more, the new book uses dialogue borrowed from Mr. Shin’s disingenuous 2007 version. “Escape From Camp 14” also includes simple line drawings (as Mr. Shin’s book had) that give the most traumatic parts of his story — torture, imprisonment, maiming, executions — the look of action comics. The most benign of these pictures carries this caption: “Children in the camps scavenged constantly for food, eating rats, insects and undigested kernels of corn they found in cow dung.” (...) Mr. Shin did not spend his imprisonment missing love, joy, civilization or comfort, because he had never experienced such things. As the spawn of a “reward marriage” — considered “the ultimate bonus for hard work and reliable snitching” — he had no real family ties. The book says that he regarded his mother as a rival for food and was right to do so; she once beat him with a hoe for eating her lunch. As a young child, he saw schoolmates maimed or even killed for minor transgressions and he learned to obey the camp’s totalitarian rules. (...) But “Shin’s misery never skidded into complete hopelessness,” Mr. Harden writes in typically plain, forthright style. “He had no hope to lose, no past to mourn, no pride to defend. He did not find it degrading to lick soup off the floor. He was not ashamed to beg a guard for forgiveness. It didn’t trouble his conscience to betray a friend for food. These were merely survival skills, not motives for suicide.”
- dba7dba 14y agoDon't mean to be a China basher but this will end in no time once China decides to act. Pretty much EVERYTHING that N Korea gets/needs to subsist comes through China. But unfortunately leadership of China believes it's better to have N Korea (despite the threats of N Korea with nukes) as a leverage/buffer against apparent threat from US and her allies. So there you have it. You want to see the suffering to stop? Pressure Chinese govt to act.
- VexXtreme 14y agoWhat is happening in North Korea can only be summed up as epic fail at human rights and people's right to free from an oppressive regime. Maybe I don't quite understand how mass psychology works, but I know that the population of the country is 24 million people and that the current system probably doesn't benefit 99.9% of that population (the other 0.1% being the regime members, for whom the whole thing works out just fine). Sorry for pulling the numbers out of my ass, but I am trying to convey an idea here. If that's the currently the case, then why wouldn't those 99.9% rise up and overthrow the regime that oppresses them? Even the soldiers are most likely normal people who have been conscripted at some point, why would they kill their own neighbors, friends and family members in the case of such an uprising? The people of North Korea have EVERY reason on this planet to overthrow their "government", what's preventing them from doing so? Like I said, I may be totally misunderstanding how mass psychology works in dictatorships, but this kind of thing seems pretty logical to me, even a no-brainer. Is it the lack of critical thinking? Critical mass? Inability to build up that critical mass? If so, why? Do people there really rat on their neighbors and family members like we often hear? If I were a more dismissive person I would just say "They're just getting what they're asking for", but I really want to understand how this works better, so someone please enlighten me.
- skrebbel 14y agoThe people of North Korea have EVERY reason on this planet to overthrow their "government", what's preventing them from doing so? Communication and organization, I guess?
- jswinghammer 14y agoNorth Korea is the nation most like Oceania in 1984 than any other on Earth. People are hungry and brainwashed from birth to love their leader and the state. That's basically why no one is trying to overthrow their government. US military intervention is sort of out of the question as well due to the immense lose of life involved (mostly in South Korea).
- oskarth 14y agoReading up on the Milgram experiment [1] could provide some insight into how such a social dynamic can be maintained. Another thing to keep in mind is that most people (most notably the soldiers) probably don't feel like they are being oppressed, or can even identify that they have a "shared enemy", i.e. the state. Revolutions are hard, and it's easy for us from more democratic countries to think of how they all should act united. As an example of that - imagine 300 years from now there are probably a lot of things that will be seen as obviously wrong with the world we are living in right now. Hindsight (or in the case of NK, a different perspective) is 20/20. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiments
- lotsofcows 14y ago"by the grace of God" Mind. Blown.
- scoot 14y agoThis version was posted a month ago, and discussed at length: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5091962 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5091962 It contains some important details that are missing from the version above, although any version of the events is unverified.
- followingell 14y agoApologies, I didn't realise that a more detailed version had been posted at an earlier date. Thank you for sharing the in depth link.
- scoot 14y agoNo apology required; it's clearly a story of interest, or it wouldn't have made the front-page again. I posted the link to the other version of the story more for people to make a comparison of the two versions of events, and see the related commentary.
- stretchwithme 14y agoI wanna say "too sad; don't read". I can't read it right now. It was bad enough scanning through the torture and executions. One day, these people will be free. And we may develop the technology to do it sooner than you think. I see the first wave of robots disabling their nukes. And the second wave disabling every fence and gun.
- rangibaby 14y agoRecently, I went on a bit of a North Korea-related reading binge. One thing I read really stuck with me: The first time I took the DMZ tour from the South, and on some tours since, the US soldier leading the tour would tell everyone we weren't looking at a real building. Instead the North's building was "a facade designed to look large and impressive, but is in reality only a frame a few feet (one meter) thick."[1] ...followed by a photo of the author sitting inside the very real, functional building during his trip to the North Korean side of the border. It woke me up to the reality that North Korea is so opaque, that there is really no way of knowing the truth of what you read or hear about the country; the official line from both "our" and "their" sides is not much other than a steady stream of propaganda. That being said, I believe Shin's experience (I originally wrote story, but felt that it was disrespectful) is authentic, and the continuing existence of concentration camps in this 21st century is yet another black mark on Humanity's record. [1] Highly recommended: http://1stopkorea.com/index.htm?nk-trip6-dmz.htm~mainframe http://1stopkorea.com/index.htm?nk-trip6-dmz.htm~mainframe
- bane 14y agoOne thing that's fun in this day and age is that you can actually check out the buildings from space! https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Panmunjeom,+Kaesong,+North+Korea&hl=en&ll=37.956059,126.677991&spn=0.00349,0.006968&sll=38.003385,-79.420925&sspn=7.139614,14.27124&oq=panmun&t=h&hq=Panmunjeom,+Kaesong,+North+Korea&z=18 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Panmunjeom,+Kaesong,+North+Ko...
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- dba7dba 14y agoWhile I applaud your dedication such as taking time to travel to S Korea and N Korea, I think you are getting mixed up at which building the US soldier was calling as fake. Basically you are claiming to have discovered US to be lying when in fact you probably misunderstood what the US soldier at DMZ was explaining. The N Korean's 'visitor' building within the JSA security area (aka Panmoonjum) is obviously not fake. But there is a FAKE village, visible from the south side. You can see it from south side. It's the village with the TALLEST flag pole in the world. And let's assume that even the buildings in the village were real, it's still a fake village because NO ONE lives in the buildings. And I should remind you your visiting N Korea tacitly supports the brutal regime that is oppressing the poor N Koreans. Every single dollar you spent when to the regime.
- krschultz 14y agoI recently read Escape From Camp 14, I would highly recommend it.
- nightbrawler 14y agoThis guy was eventually adopted by a US family: http://www.northkoreanrefugees.com/2013-01-adopted.htm http://www.northkoreanrefugees.com/2013-01-adopted.htm
- altoz 14y agoHorrific story with what happens when you cross slavery and the holocost. That said, don't be so sure we're much better. Here's North Korea's perspective of what we're like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NMr2VrhmFI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NMr2VrhmFI
- white_devil 14y agoHumans are such fucking sickening scum. It saddens me to be part of the same human race as the monsters running North-Korea.