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So what happens when all bitcoins are mined ?

by steeve 14y ago

mkr-hn 14y ago
I'll be amazed if bitcoin is still around in 2140. Automation and home manufacturing are going to do some weird things to the economics all currencies depend on. We could end up with a barter system where we trade in manufactured goods and creative output instead of currency.
- dfc 14y ago
  You think society is going to take a step back? How do you invest in a company in a barter based economy? To save time I'm stealing the following issues with a barter based economy from wikipedia.[1] How do you think home manufacturing and automation are going to mitigate these issues? Need for presence of double coincidence of wants: For barter to occur between two people, both would need to have what the other wants. Absence of common measure of value: In a monetary economy, money plays the role of a measure of value of all goods, so their values can be measured against each other; this role may be absent in a barter economy. Indivisibility of certain goods: If a person wants to buy a certain amount of another's goods, but only has for payment one indivisible unit of another good which is worth more than what the person wants to obtain, a barter transaction cannot occur. Lack of standards for deferred payments: This is related to the absence of a common measure of value, although if the debt is denominated in units of the good that will eventually be used in payment, it is not a problem. Difficulty in storing wealth: If a society relies exclusively on perishable goods, storing wealth for the future may be impractical. However, some barter economies rely on durable goods like pigs or cattle for this purpose. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barter
  - mkr-hn 14y ago
    This hypothetical barter society works, for a while, because no one needs anything. Most things are made by machines, and you can make most of the rest. You could charge a currency like bitcoin for your creations, but what would you buy with it if you convinced someone to pay for it in currency instead of something like perishable goods? You would run out of uses for it quickly. Currency already relies on our belief in its value. It won't last long when it's easier to trade for your own production and swap goods for things than to try and find a buyer for your bits.
    - dfc 14y ago
      I would buy electricity, natural gas and shares of a financial instrument in order to save for retirement. I don't plan on running out of those uses for a while.
      - mkr-hn 14y ago
        You can make your own electricity and natural gas, or form a co-op with your neighbors. And I never said it would be an instant transition to an interplanetary utopia of self-sustaining, currency-free communities. 2140 is a long way away. We're going to live through the transition, and it's not going to be pleasant.
        dfc 14y ago
        How are my neighbors and I going to make enough natural gas to heat our houses in the winter? Most importantly if automation and efficient manufacturing are so widely dispersed why would someone else accept goods they can just as easily make themselves? You forgot to answer how I will save for retirement. EDIT: I just saw your revision. You seem to assume that society will decide to give up currency go back to a barter based system. Why will we go back?
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
        dfc 14y ago
        "We'll either move toward this or have a living hell where most people have no jobs and nothing to occupy their time. We seem to survive these transitions well enough, so I like to think someone will come up with the answers." Look, I understand that you think the transition will be tough. I'm curious why you think we will make the transition. EDIT: You have edited your post again. "You seem adamant that currency will still have value when most people don't need it" Why will people not need to store wealth in order to take care of their needs later in life?
        14y ago
icebraining 14y ago
Miners will get the transaction fees: http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees
tomjen3 14y ago
(That won't happen for a while, no matter how many are mining.) Basically you pay a small transaction fee and the miner gets that.
SlipperySlope 14y ago
Each bitcoin transaction has an optional fee set by the party issuing the transaction. The miner, or mining pool, solving the block containing the new transaction is awarded the fee. At the moment bitcoin mining is all about solving blocks from newly created bitcoins. When they are gone, then bitcoin mining will be all about collecting transaction fees.

So what happens when all bitcoins are mined ?

by steeve 14y ago

So what happens when all bitcoins are mined ?

I'll be amazed if bitcoin is still around in 2140. Automation and home manufacturing are going to do some weird things to the economics all currencies depend on. We could end up with a barter system where we trade in manufactured goods and creative output instead of currency.

dfc 14y ago
You think society is going to take a step back? How do you invest in a company in a barter based economy? To save time I'm stealing the following issues with a barter based economy from wikipedia.[1] How do you think home manufacturing and automation are going to mitigate these issues? Need for presence of double coincidence of wants: For barter to occur between two people, both would need to have what the other wants. Absence of common measure of value: In a monetary economy, money plays the role of a measure of value of all goods, so their values can be measured against each other; this role may be absent in a barter economy. Indivisibility of certain goods: If a person wants to buy a certain amount of another's goods, but only has for payment one indivisible unit of another good which is worth more than what the person wants to obtain, a barter transaction cannot occur. Lack of standards for deferred payments: This is related to the absence of a common measure of value, although if the debt is denominated in units of the good that will eventually be used in payment, it is not a problem. Difficulty in storing wealth: If a society relies exclusively on perishable goods, storing wealth for the future may be impractical. However, some barter economies rely on durable goods like pigs or cattle for this purpose. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barter
- mkr-hn 14y ago
  This hypothetical barter society works, for a while, because no one needs anything. Most things are made by machines, and you can make most of the rest. You could charge a currency like bitcoin for your creations, but what would you buy with it if you convinced someone to pay for it in currency instead of something like perishable goods? You would run out of uses for it quickly. Currency already relies on our belief in its value. It won't last long when it's easier to trade for your own production and swap goods for things than to try and find a buyer for your bits.
  - dfc 14y ago
    I would buy electricity, natural gas and shares of a financial instrument in order to save for retirement. I don't plan on running out of those uses for a while.
    - mkr-hn 14y ago
      You can make your own electricity and natural gas, or form a co-op with your neighbors. And I never said it would be an instant transition to an interplanetary utopia of self-sustaining, currency-free communities. 2140 is a long way away. We're going to live through the transition, and it's not going to be pleasant.
      - dfc 14y ago
        How are my neighbors and I going to make enough natural gas to heat our houses in the winter? Most importantly if automation and efficient manufacturing are so widely dispersed why would someone else accept goods they can just as easily make themselves? You forgot to answer how I will save for retirement. EDIT: I just saw your revision. You seem to assume that society will decide to give up currency go back to a barter based system. Why will we go back?
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
        dfc 14y ago
        "We'll either move toward this or have a living hell where most people have no jobs and nothing to occupy their time. We seem to survive these transitions well enough, so I like to think someone will come up with the answers." Look, I understand that you think the transition will be tough. I'm curious why you think we will make the transition. EDIT: You have edited your post again. "You seem adamant that currency will still have value when most people don't need it" Why will people not need to store wealth in order to take care of their needs later in life?
        14y ago

icebraining 14y ago

Miners will get the transaction fees: http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees

tomjen3 14y ago

(That won't happen for a while, no matter how many are mining.) Basically you pay a small transaction fee and the miner gets that.

SlipperySlope 14y ago

Each bitcoin transaction has an optional fee set by the party issuing the transaction. The miner, or mining pool, solving the block containing the new transaction is awarded the fee. At the moment bitcoin mining is all about solving blocks from newly created bitcoins. When they are gone, then bitcoin mining will be all about collecting transaction fees.