5 ms·

Personal Renewal

46 points by queensnake 18y ago

wallflower 18y ago
"But I did say tough-minded optimism. High hopes that are dashed by the first failure are precisely what we don't need." As an extremely analytical person who wants to work on many hobbies (learning Spanish, salsa dancing, conversational dynamics, singing, etc. - pretty much everything that I'd like to be above average at and struggle at and continually shuffle among hobbies like the famous Chinese acrobat with spinning plates), this really touched me. If I want to become better at something, I must accept poor results, especially in the beginning. I've managed to go from the awkward running out of moves/stepping on feet to actually enjoying dancing but that took a couple of years. With Spanish, right now, I'm definitely handicapping myself as I simply am terrified to practice it outside of my understanding tutor who speaks slow-ly. I know that is holding me back (not attempting to make conversation) but I admit to myself that the now once-weekly tutoring session is an attempt to keep the 'learn Spanish' hobby on life support. Ok I'm rambling but I had one of those maybe-a-deep personal insight this morning - I go to certain places/do certain things and more importantly avoid certain things - to preserve a day by day individual stat us quo. I'll probably consider deleting this comment once I read this again in a few hours.
- delano 18y ago
  If I want to become better at something, I must accept poor results, especially in the beginning. Facing one's own mediocrity is the toughest part of practicing. It's almost a magic process because you can spend so much time feeling like it's going nowhere -- even for days or weeks at a time -- but then somehow, one day, you're able to handily do things that used to seem impossible or out of reach. I don't know how it works, but I like it! [I] avoid certain things - to preserve a day by day individual status quo. Everyone does that to some extent. There are a few parts of the essay that talk about it: We can't write off the danger of complacency, growing rigidity, imprisonment by our own comfortable habits and opinions. Look around you. How many people whom you know well -- people even younger than yourselves --are already trapped in fixed attitudes and habits. A famous French writer said "There are people whose clocks stop at a certain point in their lives." Everyone fails, Joe Louis said "Everyone has to figure to get beat some time." The question isn't did you fail but did you pick yourself up and move ahead? And there is one other little question: "Did you collaborate in your own defeat?" A lot of people do. Learn not to. But my favourite quote is: You never get the impression that a cow is about to have a nervous breakdown.
- pasbesoin 18y ago
  For the Spanish, specifically: When (years ago) learning German and French, I found some popular music that I rather liked and listened to it a lot. This gave me a better feel for listening to the language. Since I enjoyed the music (and what I could understand of the lyrics, with added bursts of excitement when I figured out something new about them), this practice was itself a pleasure and it was not difficult to engage in. (It helped that I had friends who could provide a bit of context regarding the music as well as some recommendations.) More recently, studies have elucidated that a lot of language acquisition occurs before/below the level of words and semantics. Infants first acquire language sound recognition and reproduction, for example. Also, different languages use/emphasis somewhat different frequencies in their speech. Extended listening to the language helps train the brain to focus on / stop filtering out those frequencies. More generally, I find that you have to enjoy the process of learning. If you are simply aiming for some eventual goal, and view the process of getting there as a necessary misery, you are setting yourself up for failure. Perhaps this is a bit sideways, but in some ways the Japanese film "Shall We Dance" may illustrate this. It's a wonderful film about a salaryman who falls sideways into ballroom dancing. A semi-fantasy about meeting an enigmatic woman in the window of a dance studio leads to an unexpected but personally enriching and empowering love of dance and the community it fosters. (Be sure to watch the original Japanese version. The U.S. remake is a commercial gimmick that does disservice to the original film.) I think we can (better) learn new things when we can enjoy them. If we think we have to learn them (completely) before we can enjoy them, that is sort of putting the cart before the horse. Of course, this is a generalization, and some things are difficult particularly at the start. But often there is still pleasure in there somewhere, long before one achieves mastery. P.S. I know my more general "insight" here is hardly revelatory. But I find it a trap I have a tendency to keep repeating, myself, looking at the goal while neglecting making sure I'm enjoying the process. And if I'm enjoying the process, I tend to be more open to unexpected opportunities, e.g. the person who is happy to let me exercise my fledgling French even though they are fluent in English.
  - wallflower 18y ago
    Thank you for your well-thought out response. All of what you've said jives with the advice I've been given. To immerse yourself is to learn. > If you are simply aiming for some eventual goal, and view the process of getting there as a necessary misery, you are setting yourself up for failure. I don't think I'm enjoying the process. I think the solution is to start going to Spanish Language meetups (break out of my one-on-one private tutoring) and maybe just walk around the Hispanic areas in my city and make smalltalk). Or maybe the solution is there is no solution - take advantage of serendipity, go with the 'unexpected opportunities' as you say.. > studies have elucidated that a lot of language acquisition occurs before/below the level of words and semantics "Impossible, because if you move somewhere foreign, you're going to learn the language unconsciously within 6 months. People who have only lived in the US don't know this. It almost takes no effort. The human brain is good at this sort of thing." from http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=500969 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=500969 One of my tutors recommended I buy the Spanish language audiobook and the book and follow-along - much like I see my friend's kids do (and as I did when I was younger - 'when Tinker Bell rings the bell, turn the page'). I could probably even listen to it while sleeping. What's stopping me? Motivation. Why do I want to learn? Do I really want to go through the pain curve of becoming competent? I'm also tempted to buy the Spanish language voice from http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-speech-interactive-demo.html http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-speech-interactive-demo... and put in in the background and have it read Spanish newspaper articles to me. What's stopping me? Probably the fact that listening to Spanish news now is very draining energy wise - trying too hard perhaps? Total immersion is the best way to learn. In fact, I now think that toddlers learning language is the best possible total immersion program (e.g. their parents are 1) emotionally invested - encourage anything that represents progress with genuine admiration and smiles - e.g. 'Sigh' for 'Sky' is close enough, to begin - and 2) have the requisite patience and 3) the toddler wants to control/understand his environment [e.g. terrible twos] - so it is his/her incentive to improve quickly - as a side note, maybe that is why 'No' becomes a very common word for parents to utter..). > the Japanese film "Shall We Dance" may illustrate this Years ago, I saw the original. Loved it. A favorite, even though I've never watched it again. So much better than the remake (even though I've never seen the remake - I know it can't be as good). In retrospect, I think it may have inspired me. An interesting comic about "Learning" vs "Knowing" (via another HN comment) http://jackiesfridge.comicgenesis.com/d/20001227.html http://jackiesfridge.comicgenesis.com/d/20001227.html I love listening to Salsa music, even before I could pick up the beat and the words - which I'm still struggling to decipher. Beloit College's Summer Intensive Language School (not for beginners?) http://www.summerlanguages.com/index.php http://www.summerlanguages.com/index.php
bitwize 18y ago
On the flipside, if you want to be great at physics or math, and you are older than 30, you probably missed your chance. Better luck next life.
- Radix 18y ago
  Maybe you can't create new physics and math, but is it also true that you can't learn to do many useful things with them? I'm not sure. I'd like to think it isn't.
jyothi 18y ago
One of the best reads. So well written and so many good anecdotes. Few good ones: One must be compassionate in assessing the reasons. Perhaps life just presented them with tougher problems than they could solve. It happens. Or maybe they just ran so hard for so long that somewhere along the line they forgot what it was they were running for. Life is hard. Just to keep on keeping on is sometimes an act of courage. A famous French writer said "There are people whose clocks stop at a certain point in their lives." Don't be too hard on yourself. Look ahead. Someone said that "Life is the art of drawing without an eraser." And above all don't imagine that the story is over. Life has a lot of chapters. You don't need to run down like an unwound clock. And if your clock is unwound, you can wind it up again. You can stay alive in every sense of the word until you fail physically. The more I see of human lives, the more I believe the business of growing up is much longer drawn out than we pretend. You find that the world loves talent, but pays off on character. You come to understand that most people are neither for you nor against you, they are thinking about themselves. You learn that no matter how hard you try to please, some people in this world are not going to love you, a lesson that is at first troubling and then really quite relaxing. You finally grasp what S. N. Behrman meant when he said "At the end of every road you meet yourself." 'Did you collaborate in your own de feat?" A lot of people do. Learn not to. You never get the impression that a cow is about to have a nervous breakdown. Or is puzzling about the meaning of life. There are men and women who make the world better just by being the kind of people they are. Life is tumultuous -- an endless losing and regaining of balance, a continuous struggle, never an assured victory. Someone said "It's all right to be a late bloomer if you don't miss the flower show."

46 points by queensnake 18y ago

"But I did say tough-minded optimism. High hopes that are dashed by the first failure are precisely what we don't need." As an extremely analytical person who wants to work on many hobbies (learning Spanish, salsa dancing, conversational dynamics, singing, etc. - pretty much everything that I'd like to be above average at and struggle at and continually shuffle among hobbies like the famous Chinese acrobat with spinning plates), this really touched me. If I want to become better at something, I must accept poor results, especially in the beginning. I've managed to go from the awkward running out of moves/stepping on feet to actually enjoying dancing but that took a couple of years. With Spanish, right now, I'm definitely handicapping myself as I simply am terrified to practice it outside of my understanding tutor who speaks slow-ly. I know that is holding me back (not attempting to make conversation) but I admit to myself that the now once-weekly tutoring session is an attempt to keep the 'learn Spanish' hobby on life support. Ok I'm rambling but I had one of those maybe-a-deep personal insight this morning - I go to certain places/do certain things and more importantly avoid certain things - to preserve a day by day individual stat us quo. I'll probably consider deleting this comment once I read this again in a few hours.

delano 18y ago
If I want to become better at something, I must accept poor results, especially in the beginning. Facing one's own mediocrity is the toughest part of practicing. It's almost a magic process because you can spend so much time feeling like it's going nowhere -- even for days or weeks at a time -- but then somehow, one day, you're able to handily do things that used to seem impossible or out of reach. I don't know how it works, but I like it! [I] avoid certain things - to preserve a day by day individual status quo. Everyone does that to some extent. There are a few parts of the essay that talk about it: We can't write off the danger of complacency, growing rigidity, imprisonment by our own comfortable habits and opinions. Look around you. How many people whom you know well -- people even younger than yourselves --are already trapped in fixed attitudes and habits. A famous French writer said "There are people whose clocks stop at a certain point in their lives." Everyone fails, Joe Louis said "Everyone has to figure to get beat some time." The question isn't did you fail but did you pick yourself up and move ahead? And there is one other little question: "Did you collaborate in your own defeat?" A lot of people do. Learn not to. But my favourite quote is: You never get the impression that a cow is about to have a nervous breakdown.
pasbesoin 18y ago
For the Spanish, specifically: When (years ago) learning German and French, I found some popular music that I rather liked and listened to it a lot. This gave me a better feel for listening to the language. Since I enjoyed the music (and what I could understand of the lyrics, with added bursts of excitement when I figured out something new about them), this practice was itself a pleasure and it was not difficult to engage in. (It helped that I had friends who could provide a bit of context regarding the music as well as some recommendations.) More recently, studies have elucidated that a lot of language acquisition occurs before/below the level of words and semantics. Infants first acquire language sound recognition and reproduction, for example. Also, different languages use/emphasis somewhat different frequencies in their speech. Extended listening to the language helps train the brain to focus on / stop filtering out those frequencies. More generally, I find that you have to enjoy the process of learning. If you are simply aiming for some eventual goal, and view the process of getting there as a necessary misery, you are setting yourself up for failure. Perhaps this is a bit sideways, but in some ways the Japanese film "Shall We Dance" may illustrate this. It's a wonderful film about a salaryman who falls sideways into ballroom dancing. A semi-fantasy about meeting an enigmatic woman in the window of a dance studio leads to an unexpected but personally enriching and empowering love of dance and the community it fosters. (Be sure to watch the original Japanese version. The U.S. remake is a commercial gimmick that does disservice to the original film.) I think we can (better) learn new things when we can enjoy them. If we think we have to learn them (completely) before we can enjoy them, that is sort of putting the cart before the horse. Of course, this is a generalization, and some things are difficult particularly at the start. But often there is still pleasure in there somewhere, long before one achieves mastery. P.S. I know my more general "insight" here is hardly revelatory. But I find it a trap I have a tendency to keep repeating, myself, looking at the goal while neglecting making sure I'm enjoying the process. And if I'm enjoying the process, I tend to be more open to unexpected opportunities, e.g. the person who is happy to let me exercise my fledgling French even though they are fluent in English.
- wallflower 18y ago
  Thank you for your well-thought out response. All of what you've said jives with the advice I've been given. To immerse yourself is to learn. > If you are simply aiming for some eventual goal, and view the process of getting there as a necessary misery, you are setting yourself up for failure. I don't think I'm enjoying the process. I think the solution is to start going to Spanish Language meetups (break out of my one-on-one private tutoring) and maybe just walk around the Hispanic areas in my city and make smalltalk). Or maybe the solution is there is no solution - take advantage of serendipity, go with the 'unexpected opportunities' as you say.. > studies have elucidated that a lot of language acquisition occurs before/below the level of words and semantics "Impossible, because if you move somewhere foreign, you're going to learn the language unconsciously within 6 months. People who have only lived in the US don't know this. It almost takes no effort. The human brain is good at this sort of thing." from http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=500969 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=500969 One of my tutors recommended I buy the Spanish language audiobook and the book and follow-along - much like I see my friend's kids do (and as I did when I was younger - 'when Tinker Bell rings the bell, turn the page'). I could probably even listen to it while sleeping. What's stopping me? Motivation. Why do I want to learn? Do I really want to go through the pain curve of becoming competent? I'm also tempted to buy the Spanish language voice from http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-speech-interactive-demo.html http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-speech-interactive-demo... and put in in the background and have it read Spanish newspaper articles to me. What's stopping me? Probably the fact that listening to Spanish news now is very draining energy wise - trying too hard perhaps? Total immersion is the best way to learn. In fact, I now think that toddlers learning language is the best possible total immersion program (e.g. their parents are 1) emotionally invested - encourage anything that represents progress with genuine admiration and smiles - e.g. 'Sigh' for 'Sky' is close enough, to begin - and 2) have the requisite patience and 3) the toddler wants to control/understand his environment [e.g. terrible twos] - so it is his/her incentive to improve quickly - as a side note, maybe that is why 'No' becomes a very common word for parents to utter..). > the Japanese film "Shall We Dance" may illustrate this Years ago, I saw the original. Loved it. A favorite, even though I've never watched it again. So much better than the remake (even though I've never seen the remake - I know it can't be as good). In retrospect, I think it may have inspired me. An interesting comic about "Learning" vs "Knowing" (via another HN comment) http://jackiesfridge.comicgenesis.com/d/20001227.html http://jackiesfridge.comicgenesis.com/d/20001227.html I love listening to Salsa music, even before I could pick up the beat and the words - which I'm still struggling to decipher. Beloit College's Summer Intensive Language School (not for beginners?) http://www.summerlanguages.com/index.php http://www.summerlanguages.com/index.php

bitwize 18y ago

On the flipside, if you want to be great at physics or math, and you are older than 30, you probably missed your chance. Better luck next life.

Radix 18y ago
Maybe you can't create new physics and math, but is it also true that you can't learn to do many useful things with them? I'm not sure. I'd like to think it isn't.

jyothi 18y ago

One of the best reads. So well written and so many good anecdotes. Few good ones: One must be compassionate in assessing the reasons. Perhaps life just presented them with tougher problems than they could solve. It happens. Or maybe they just ran so hard for so long that somewhere along the line they forgot what it was they were running for. Life is hard. Just to keep on keeping on is sometimes an act of courage. A famous French writer said "There are people whose clocks stop at a certain point in their lives." Don't be too hard on yourself. Look ahead. Someone said that "Life is the art of drawing without an eraser." And above all don't imagine that the story is over. Life has a lot of chapters. You don't need to run down like an unwound clock. And if your clock is unwound, you can wind it up again. You can stay alive in every sense of the word until you fail physically. The more I see of human lives, the more I believe the business of growing up is much longer drawn out than we pretend. You find that the world loves talent, but pays off on character. You come to understand that most people are neither for you nor against you, they are thinking about themselves. You learn that no matter how hard you try to please, some people in this world are not going to love you, a lesson that is at first troubling and then really quite relaxing. You finally grasp what S. N. Behrman meant when he said "At the end of every road you meet yourself." 'Did you collaborate in your own de feat?" A lot of people do. Learn not to. You never get the impression that a cow is about to have a nervous breakdown. Or is puzzling about the meaning of life. There are men and women who make the world better just by being the kind of people they are. Life is tumultuous -- an endless losing and regaining of balance, a continuous struggle, never an assured victory. Someone said "It's all right to be a late bloomer if you don't miss the flower show."