3 ms·

Since I'm the op, I'll answer ;) First, I do want to thank for pointing those frameworks out. I Knew about all the Haskell ones as well as Lift, but OPA I had

by BSousa 14y ago

Since I'm the op, I'll answer ;) First, I do want to thank for pointing those frameworks out. I Knew about all the Haskell ones as well as Lift, but OPA I had no idea. Currently looking at it now. Not a fan of JS, but I'm open minded enough to take a loot at. I quite like Haskell, but I feel the Haskell frameworks aren't there. They may be secure, but the way we have to develop around them makes me cringe (snap for example, and how to get parameters from actions, or yesod with the template haskell everywhere). Also, not sure how battle tested they are. Looking at Haskell wiki, each project has about 10 sites to each framework, and none high profile enough. I love my unix shell, but I'm really considering .net for this (I think c# is quite a decent language, and f# allows me to have functional programming in there.) Microsoft is trusted by the enterprise (Even if there are issues, managers are more willingly to allow .net patches than framework of the day patches.) I'll look at lift/scala/play now, see if they allow me an ease to develop that I like, combined with JVM security (whatever that is, but more likely a manager will know about JAva than Ruby/Python)

SkyMarshal 14y ago
>but OPA I had no idea. Currently looking at it now. Not a fan of JS, but I'm open minded enough to take a loot at. Crap, Opa used to be an Ocaml framework that you programmed with an Ocaml-derived DSL and that generated client side JS and a single native binary that contained both the app server, web server, and database. It reminded me of Facebook's single binary blob architecture. But looks like it's been changed since I last looked at it, now you program it with a JS-derived DSL and it generates client-side JS and server-side Node.js. It can still compile to server-side native code, but not by default, you have to compile it from source to get that: http://forum.opalang.org/0_235 http://forum.opalang.org/0_235 At a cursory glance it appears the MLState guys are still using their Ocaml-based compiler to generate both the client and server side JS/MongoDB, and I assume still have the same focus on framework security, but not certain. Personally, the only one of those frameworks I would use for high-security production is Lift, though I'm really looking forward to the Haskell frameworks getting there as well. Lift is the only one that meets my personal requirements for maturity and designed-for-security, but figured I'd list the others just in case. Lift also does things differently, in a way that I personally appreciate but not all do - namely that html 'pages' are parsed as typed XML DOM objects rather than dumb text files/strings, and Ajax/Comet are DOM transforms rather than string rewriting. Instead of writing controllers, you write 'snippets' in Lift's DSL that bind to a DOM element and transform it, and that can be wired to other snippets, parallel processed, and lazy-loaded. All very cool, like a server-side single page application. As for .NET, I haven't used or even paid much attention to the MS stack since 2009 so am not qualified to say anything about it, but it's definitely a safe choice. Nobody ever got fired for buying MS, they put billions into securing it, and there are tons of experts on it.

by BSousa 14y ago

SkyMarshal 14y ago

>but OPA I had no idea. Currently looking at it now. Not a fan of JS, but I'm open minded enough to take a loot at. Crap, Opa used to be an Ocaml framework that you programmed with an Ocaml-derived DSL and that generated client side JS and a single native binary that contained both the app server, web server, and database. It reminded me of Facebook's single binary blob architecture. But looks like it's been changed since I last looked at it, now you program it with a JS-derived DSL and it generates client-side JS and server-side Node.js. It can still compile to server-side native code, but not by default, you have to compile it from source to get that: http://forum.opalang.org/0_235 http://forum.opalang.org/0_235 At a cursory glance it appears the MLState guys are still using their Ocaml-based compiler to generate both the client and server side JS/MongoDB, and I assume still have the same focus on framework security, but not certain. Personally, the only one of those frameworks I would use for high-security production is Lift, though I'm really looking forward to the Haskell frameworks getting there as well. Lift is the only one that meets my personal requirements for maturity and designed-for-security, but figured I'd list the others just in case. Lift also does things differently, in a way that I personally appreciate but not all do - namely that html 'pages' are parsed as typed XML DOM objects rather than dumb text files/strings, and Ajax/Comet are DOM transforms rather than string rewriting. Instead of writing controllers, you write 'snippets' in Lift's DSL that bind to a DOM element and transform it, and that can be wired to other snippets, parallel processed, and lazy-loaded. All very cool, like a server-side single page application. As for .NET, I haven't used or even paid much attention to the MS stack since 2009 so am not qualified to say anything about it, but it's definitely a safe choice. Nobody ever got fired for buying MS, they put billions into securing it, and there are tons of experts on it.