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I disagree with the part of his post that reads: "First, to do a chargeback when you are buying software and or intellectual property rights is repugnant. Its

I disagree with the part of his post that reads: "First, to do a chargeback when you are buying software and or intellectual property rights is repugnant. Its something you can never give back. No matter what. It can never be deleted. And you know this when you are making the acquisition." There is not other way to signal to the developer that the software is not what you thought it was. For instance, I purchased a note-taking app from the App Store last night that turned out to not be what I needed. There was no way of knowing this beforehand because there is no free version that I could test and pirating it would have been way more trouble than it's worth (plus, I'm not doing that anymore). So, what's the reasonable solution? For physical goods, if I'm unhappy with the purchase, I can return the item and receive a refund. For software, there is no good return method. Now, one could argue that it's only a $10 app, but that isn't the point. The point is that $10 paid for something that I don't want or need, and while $10 probably isn't much to me, it should not be yours because your product failed to meet my needs. As for the rest of the post, the purchaser in that case was out of line. He'd bought the product, used it for a significant amount of time, and apparently gotten some value out of it. At that point, there should be no ability to return the item.

jckay 14y ago
You make a really fair point. In fact, its why most really successful apps (and software companies in general) all have a free-to-paid model or some sort of trial basis. With Apptopia, we build in a "Code Review" layer. So if you are concerned about the quality of the code you are buying we can dive as deep as you would like before the acquisition is final. Also, all apps listed on Apptopia are currently on an app store (so all buyers can and should be testing the apps as a consumer, before acquiring it). Either way, appreciate you getting involved in the conversation. Hope the code is of some value to you =) Jonathan
- otsdr 14y ago
  I can only hope you will be improving the said 'Code Review' layer in the future. The 'app' in question is nothing more than a thin layer of badly written code wrapped around a 3rd party library (PhoneGap). It can be made into (and sold as) an indeterminate number of "<insert subject here> video player" "apps" just by changing the hardcoded search terms (affirmation also enforced by the fact that the /bin directory in the zip contains a 'motorsport video player.apk' "app")
  - saaji 14y ago
    Actually this is up to a buyer to ask review code or not, and there are different levels of code review, so, as Jonathan said you can dive as deep as you would like. The buyer in question did not ask for any.
habosa 14y ago
On Apptopia you don't buy apps, you buy all of the source code and distribution rights to an app. So in this case the buyer bought the previously closed-source code, took what he needed from it, and then filed a chargeback. That's much different than buying a packaged app for personal use from an App Store.
- colkassad 14y ago
  They should have stated a brief blurb about themselves in their blog post. Not knowing anything about Apptopia, I thought they released something this guy created on his own from scratch.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
gps710 14y ago
Credit card companies require that customers attempt to remedy any complaints with the merchant directly prior to initiating a charge-back. The customer clearly made no claim as to their concerns regarding the product, they just said they weren't the one that bought it, based on the claim of a fraudulent charge. I see this much like purchasing a home. You have the opportunity to inspect the home during the closing (read code review). This is designed to provide a certification as to the quality of code without making the closed source code visible to you directly. If you don't utilize this, and the app complies as the same app that exists in the app store, it is hard to make the argument that you didn't know what you were getting. Unlike your example, as an app buyer you have the opportunity to use the app prior to purchasing ownership of the asset, so there is much more transparency than in a traditional app store software download example.
- kjackson2012 14y ago
  No they do not need to attempt to contact the merchant. Especially companies like American Express, they will usually chargeback first and ask questions later. In fact, if customers call in to ask what a particular charge is, they will ding the merchant.
ryanackley 14y ago
See, I don't agree with this unless the developer is grossly misrepresenting the app. You're basically entering an agreement with the seller but then breaking it to suit your purposes. If you're unhappy with someone's terms of sale then you should take your business somewhere else. I don't think it applies to the app store but there is usually a chargeback fee to a merchant when a customer charges back an item so you're taking money out of the software developer's pocket if you decide to use your credit card chargeback mechanism to get a free software trial. I do agree that it's really dumb for a developer not to offer a free trial. Personally, I will never buy software without trying it first.

jckay 14y ago

You make a really fair point. In fact, its why most really successful apps (and software companies in general) all have a free-to-paid model or some sort of trial basis. With Apptopia, we build in a "Code Review" layer. So if you are concerned about the quality of the code you are buying we can dive as deep as you would like before the acquisition is final. Also, all apps listed on Apptopia are currently on an app store (so all buyers can and should be testing the apps as a consumer, before acquiring it). Either way, appreciate you getting involved in the conversation. Hope the code is of some value to you =) Jonathan

otsdr 14y ago
I can only hope you will be improving the said 'Code Review' layer in the future. The 'app' in question is nothing more than a thin layer of badly written code wrapped around a 3rd party library (PhoneGap). It can be made into (and sold as) an indeterminate number of "<insert subject here> video player" "apps" just by changing the hardcoded search terms (affirmation also enforced by the fact that the /bin directory in the zip contains a 'motorsport video player.apk' "app")
- saaji 14y ago
  Actually this is up to a buyer to ask review code or not, and there are different levels of code review, so, as Jonathan said you can dive as deep as you would like. The buyer in question did not ask for any.

habosa 14y ago

On Apptopia you don't buy apps, you buy all of the source code and distribution rights to an app. So in this case the buyer bought the previously closed-source code, took what he needed from it, and then filed a chargeback. That's much different than buying a packaged app for personal use from an App Store.

colkassad 14y ago
They should have stated a brief blurb about themselves in their blog post. Not knowing anything about Apptopia, I thought they released something this guy created on his own from scratch.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

gps710 14y ago

Credit card companies require that customers attempt to remedy any complaints with the merchant directly prior to initiating a charge-back. The customer clearly made no claim as to their concerns regarding the product, they just said they weren't the one that bought it, based on the claim of a fraudulent charge. I see this much like purchasing a home. You have the opportunity to inspect the home during the closing (read code review). This is designed to provide a certification as to the quality of code without making the closed source code visible to you directly. If you don't utilize this, and the app complies as the same app that exists in the app store, it is hard to make the argument that you didn't know what you were getting. Unlike your example, as an app buyer you have the opportunity to use the app prior to purchasing ownership of the asset, so there is much more transparency than in a traditional app store software download example.

kjackson2012 14y ago
No they do not need to attempt to contact the merchant. Especially companies like American Express, they will usually chargeback first and ask questions later. In fact, if customers call in to ask what a particular charge is, they will ding the merchant.

ryanackley 14y ago

See, I don't agree with this unless the developer is grossly misrepresenting the app. You're basically entering an agreement with the seller but then breaking it to suit your purposes. If you're unhappy with someone's terms of sale then you should take your business somewhere else. I don't think it applies to the app store but there is usually a chargeback fee to a merchant when a customer charges back an item so you're taking money out of the software developer's pocket if you decide to use your credit card chargeback mechanism to get a free software trial. I do agree that it's really dumb for a developer not to offer a free trial. Personally, I will never buy software without trying it first.