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People laugh when they hear a "sexist" joke because it's funny. Maybe gender related jokes don't have a place at conferences and work places - I am not sure -

• kmfrk 14y ago
  I am open to the idea that openly sexist jokes can be funny, but in those cases, they are funny, because they are explicitly, egregiously offensive, and the laughter ensues because of the awkwardness this creates. British humour (Jimmy Carr) is based on offending, and Louis C.K. have almost made careers out of this. Ricky Gervais did something similar, when he hosted the Golden Globes. The point of his shtick was to make people feel uncomfortable at an event that usually occasions insufferably back-patting and ego-stroking where people hand each other awards and accolades for being amazing, infallible human beings. The problem arises when sexist jokes aren't regarded as intentionally offensive, and the discourse is internalized to the point where sexism is regarded as being funny, because it's sexism. I don't see a lot of "funny" racism - if any - in the industry, and I think it's because we've come much farther, when it relates to race - and to some degree sexuality as well. Comedian Stewart Lee is good at describing this mentality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgABbHPdwH4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgABbHPdwH4.
• ZoFreX 14y ago
  > but there should be room for jokes about genders somewhere, right? Why?
  • kolektiv 14y ago
    For the same reason that there should be jokes about pretty much everything. They're a form of human communication and expression which can be very valuable to group dynamics. It is perfectly possible to joke about horrific things without intending to condone or support those things. That said, the place for these jokes is unlikely to be in groups of people you don't know at tech conferences. That's insensitive, rude and often intimidating - so don't.
  • bane 14y ago
    because purposely offensive jokes can be funny in the right context and when you know the jokester doesn't really believe in what they're saying
  • flexie 14y ago
    Because we like laughing. Women laugh about men, men about women.
  • marrs 14y ago
    because they're funny
  • gerhardi 14y ago
    You shouldn't eat tomatoes because I don't like them.
  • treerock 14y ago
    Yep, all the jokes should be censored for fear of causing offence.
  • alan_cx 14y ago
    Because.
  • realist123 14y ago
    http://s3.postimage.org/ts971lz37/joke.jpg http://s3.postimage.org/ts971lz37/joke.jpg
• 9392732 14y ago
  It doesn't stop as there is to much to be gained from it...
• theorique 14y ago
  Well, that's sort of the issue. Not everyone's sense of humor is the same but people with different senses of humor are going to work together in the same office. In order to reduce conflict, joking about potentially sensitive things is generally discouraged in the workplace.
• singular 14y ago
  People laugh when they hear a "racist" joke because it's funny. Maybe race related jokes don't have a place at conferences and work places - I am not sure - but there should be room for jokes about race somewhere, right? I mean, where does this political correctness stop?
  • 9392732 14y ago
    I am still waiting for the out cry from "dumb things white people do" posts that pop up
    • mistercow 14y ago
      what about teh whitez? Prejudice against privileged groups isn't met with as much outrage as prejudice against unprivileged groups, and this is as it should be. Both are harmful, but the harm of the former is tiny in comparison to the harm of the latter.
      • 9392732 14y ago
        So you are allowed to consider race when you are choosing your level of outrage?
        • rjknight 14y ago
          In the same way that a 5-year old child punching a 30-year-old adult is not the same thing as a 30-year-old adult punching a 5-year-old child, yes. This gets complicated when we consider that treating underprivileged groups as the proverbial 5-year-old children can also be a problem, such as when we assume they're incapable of speaking cogently for themselves, and so on. It's a difficult problem, which is why these kinds of topics always generate 100+ comment threads and much simpler topics do not.
          • Gobitron 14y ago
            This is the best comment in the thread.
• DannoHung 14y ago
  Stop making the world a slightly shittier place.
• hedwall 14y ago
  Sure, between friends who know each other and where the limits are. But in a professional setting, be it at work or a conference, sexist jokes have no place. And it's not political correctness, it is respecting that we all experience things differently.
• analog 14y ago
  The line is when you're talking to your friends, that's where you can try out your 'edgy' jokes. These kind of jokes are completely out of place in a professional environment.
  • ZoFreX 14y ago
    My rule of thumb is that I only make "edgy" jokes in private, amongst people who I can be certain of the reasons why they are laughing. One might think that everyone is laughing for the same reasons you find the joke funny, but often they are not. (Chris Rock and Louis CK have both removed material from their routines for this exact reason) Another issue with offensive speech is that it normalises behaviour and thoughts that may be far more pernicious than a tendency to make jokes. If you have one of "those friends" that tells a disproportionate amount of (sexist/racist/rape-based/etc) jokes, it may be the case that you laughing along is actually justifying/enforcing beliefs they hold that you would find reprehensible (and likewise for you telling jokes of the same nature in their company) As we are all subconscious sexists (there's a link up-thread to a study on blind hiring as an example) there is also a very real danger that you cause harm to your own mind (in the sense of creating or reinforcing bad behaviour and opinions) by engaging in humour or speech based on sexism, even if you don't think you believe the underlying sexism that you are lampshading with the humour.
• sgt 14y ago
  It's human, politically incorrect jokes are just a part of who we are. This lady is just really up-tight and probably not very pleasant to be around, and I'm sure if you stuck a lump of coal in a particular location, in two weeks you'd have a diamond.
  • halostatue 14y ago
    Thank you so very much for proving her point that there are a lot of sexist pigs in our industry, and that you're one of them.
    • str8gk 14y ago
      Thank you for proving everyone else's point that there are a lot of humourless dummies in our industry, and that you're one of them
• lee 14y ago
  I don't think they do. A sexist joke is about as professional to make in a conference as a racist or religious joke. Just don't do it. I agree that most humour will offend someone. Try watching a stand-up act that doesn't offend someone's race, gender, sexual orientation, age, or any other demographic information. Some of those discriminatory jokes can be really funny; after all we're human. There's a time and place for it. Context is everything.
  • NateDad 14y ago
    This. Your presentation to colleagues is not the same as Chris Rock's standup. Keep jokes generic... yes, that means they're often less funny
• mcherm 14y ago
  > where does this political correctness stop? Can I turn that around? Can I instead answer "When should the jokes about gender stop?" They should stop when they begin to offend someone or to marginalize them. Now, when hanging out with a couple of your friends, you probably have the social skills, the ability to discern body language to be able to tell when someone gets offended and back off. Or maybe you don't: maybe, like me, you aren't especially good at reading nonverbal cues, in which case you should realize that about yourself and tread less close to the line. But when presenting at a conference? When sending out a company-wide email? You don't have the skill to tell what will be a problem and what will be funny: NO ONE has that skill. So stick to the things that you are sure won't offend anyone. Unless you're the kind of person who thinks it's just FINE to exclude or offend a few "sensitive" individuals as long as you get a chuckle from most of the room. If you're that kind of person then I don't want to associate with you anyway.
  • PeterisP 14y ago
    Jokes shouldn't stop because they offend someone. You should be allowed (both legally and morally) to make crude fun of leaders and politicians, including the leader of your country and leaders of companies, parties and NGOs. You should be allowed (both legally and morally) to make crude fun of people's habits, including the current religious practices of your country or other peoples. These are important core freedoms to have - but these already offend some people SO much, up to and including murder, that the other sensitive topics (racism,sexism,etc) pale in comparison.
• dasil003 14y ago
  Or because it makes them uncomfortable. But in any case, yes, it's true you can make a joke about anything. George Carlin famously proved this with a rape joke. George Carlin was also one of the most brilliant comedians ever to live so he could pull it off. The simple fact is that "jokes" which reinforce current power structure are not good jokes. As a man you don't get to decide how women should feel about scantily clad ladies in technical talk slides, just as a white person you don't get to tell black people how they should feel about affirmative action. When you make philosophical proclamations about the world from a position of power you're no different from a jock making fun of a nerd because "he looks funny". Just a modicum of empathy is all that people want in the vast majority of cases.
  • coldtea 14y ago
    >George Carlin famously proved this with a rape joke. Famously? People have been making jokes about farse worse matters than rape for millenia. From war, to incurable illness, to genocide, to torture, to the plague, everything has been made into the subject of a joke. It might be a novel concept for a prudish, politically correct section society, but it's historically true.
    • dasil003 14y ago
      What does fame have to do with novelty?
    • coldtea 14y ago
      >What does fame have to do with novelty? Nothing. It has to do with the "proved" part. Something known to be true man for millennia does not get "proved".
      • dasil003 14y ago
        Okay, thank you for derailing my point with an utterly pointless semantic quibble.
  • deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
• DanBC 14y ago
  > Maybe gender related jokes don't have a place at conferences and work places > I mean, where does this political correctness stop It seems really obvious to me. At work, at a conference, you don't tell racist, sexist, ableist etc jokes. What you do outside work is up to you. (But, if you do it outside work and in public it may complicate things if you have a work related discrimination problem.) > political correctness "Political correctness" is often a buzzword used to dismiss people who want to discuss this. Other, better, words exist. "Politeness" is one.
  • coldtea 14y ago
    >"Political correctness" is often a buzzword used to dismiss people who want to discuss this. Other, better, words exist. "Politeness" is one. "Freedom of expression" is another, though.
    • coldtea 14y ago
      "I'm sorry you feel that the rules of basic human decency are trampling on your first amendment rights." I don't have first amendment rights, as I'm not American. And the cliches and Prudishness of one specific society do not universal "basic human decency" constitute. Or, as Bernard Shaw put it: "Pardon him, Theodotus. He is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature."
    • hackerkira 14y ago
      I never understood why "political correctness" has to be political. Almost all of the words that aren't PC, are must more entrenched in the social, societal sphere than in politics. If a politician says something non-PC, they get in much more trouble than a lay person. A person who is an expert at being PC...will probably succeed as a politician, tip-toeing strategic thinker...
      • coldtea 14y ago
        >I never understood why "political correctness" has to be political. Almost all of the words that aren't PC, are must more entrenched in the social, societal sphere than in politics. It's not about "politics" as in the narrow sphere of political affairs (democrats, republicans, voting etc). It's about "political" in the wider sense (that is "trying to be tactful", not to annoy various sides, etc).
• alan_cx 14y ago
  There is a problem with categorising jokes. I'm very much in to comedy, I sort of almost study it. Too often people confuse a simple word play joke with sexism, racism, etc, when its not. To be fair, the examples given are, I think, sexist, and there for titillation. These examples aren't jokes, they are, er illustration. On the other hand, women are beautiful to look at, and using women in this way does, I'm afraid, help bind information in to the male head. That is why sex is used so much in advertising. Until men are completely de-sexed in some creepy way, I don't see this changing much. I dunno, I just don't like the idea of giving up being a "man" and having man feelings. And I feel like this sort of feminism is all about women being women at the expense of men being men. None of that means women should be mis-treated in the work place, underpaid, or even slightly harassed. But I do think a bit of understanding both ways is required. I say drop the stuff about images, and make damn sure women are paid properly and taken professionally seriously. Is that not enough?
• hackmiester 14y ago
  A joke about gender isn't the same as a sexist joke. I would argue that neither really have a place at conferences, though. Why make a divisive joke?
• JPKab 14y ago
  The political correctness should stop at any event that is A) not public, B)not filled with attendees who have paid to be there, and C) not geared for business. Tech events do not satisfy any of these criteria. If you are presenting, there are numerous ways to inject humor without demeaning anyone. What's funny is that, as a guy raised in the rural south, the thought of presenting ANYTHING with pictures of scantily clad women strikes me as immediately something not to do in public, ever. It also smacks of someone lacking intellect and creativty, and is in the same realm as bathroom humor. If you have to sink to that level, you aren't clever or funny, so don't try to be.
• CodeMage 14y ago
  Sure, there should be room for jokes of all kinds: at a standup comedy show, in private among friends and family, etc. We "all" laugh at jokes that are funny until we hear one that "isn't so funny" because it targets something painful in us. For example, I'm pretty damn tired of all jokes about Balkans, ex-Yugoslavia, Serbia, etc. A lot of them are even true, but after several wars and a bombing campaign from NATO and leaving the country because I feel deserve a future denied to me by choices of previous generations, let's just say that I can't appreciate that particular humor anymore. Now, imagine being a woman. Imagine growing up with TV cartoons grooming you to become a princess, a fashion model or, if you failed at that, a housewife. Imagine getting only a certain kind of gifts for birthday, in certain colors. Imagine people paying more attention to your breasts than what you're saying to them. And then imagine hearing sexist jokes since you were a kid. Would you really find a sexist joke funny at a conference?
  • jimzvz 14y ago
    Now, imagine being a man. Imagine growing up with TV cartoons grooming you to become a superhero, a movie star, if you failed at that, an office worker. Imagine getting only a certain kind of gifts for birthday, in certain colors. Imagine people paying more attention to your wallet than what you're saying to them. And then imagine hearing sexist jokes since you were a kid. Would you really find a sexist joke funny on the view? By the way, I don't think that it is appropriate to show people in underwear at a conference unless it is relevant. I am just pointing out that what you said could easily be applied to men.
    • CodeMage 14y ago
      No, it can't be easily applied to men. Where it falls apart is the "imagine hearing sexist jokes since you were a kid" part. Our society is not equally sexist to men and women. Not even close. I recommend reading "The Distress of the Privileged": http://weeklysift.com/2012/09/10/the-distress-of-the-privileged/ http://weeklysift.com/2012/09/10/the-distress-of-the-privile... I've seen your other comments and I think you're consistently overreacting. Scalzi's essay is there to simply introduce a metaphor to explain why straight white males, on the average, have it easier than other groups. It's not there to condone or promote sexism (or racism or any other unfair discrimination) towards straight white males. If your whole point is "well, it's not right to be sexist towards men either", then I agree with you completely, but the relevance of your claim is questionable in this discussion because: 1) nobody originally claimed it's right to be sexist to men and 2) sexism towards women is so much more prevalent, especially in our industry, that it's a problem that has higher priority than sexism towards men.
• Dwolb 14y ago
  This is a topic that comes up in improv a lot - actors want to play a character of a given background (gender, orientation, ethnicity), but don't want it to come off as offensive. The fact is, it's always possible to be offensive no matter what the actor does. Anecdotally however, playing a character of a given background becomes offensive when the actor portrays a caricature of the background or the actor speaks or acts in a way that takes away the character's humanity. Therefore, it's typically okay to play a character of a specific background, as long as you stay true to how the character thinks or acts as a human, and not as a caricature or cartoon.
• rmrfrmrf 14y ago
  Kudos for derailing the discussion from one about the objectification of women through imagery to a discussion about gender-based humor. I'm honestly a little surprised that so many people here fell for it--it's more or less the oldest trick in the book.
• rbehrends 14y ago
  People laugh when they hear a "sexist" joke because it's funny. What makes these jokes different, though, is that they are about having fun at somebody else's expense. Some people care about not causing others discomfort; some don't. Also, personally, I tend to find them embarrassing and juvenile, not funny. I mean, where does this political correctness stop? Usually wherever inability to empathize with others begins. There is, after all, no law against being inconsiderate.
• deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
• rmc 14y ago
  At home, in the privacy of your home. Look, it's like talking about or showing your naked body. You can't do it in work or professional contexts. If the people close to you are OK with all of ye getting naked, fine. But if someone complains of you being naked at work, you have no right to complain.