13 ms·

Is the collapse still influencing you in everyday life? I wasn't quite aware of that (sorry). For example in Sweden all signs of it seem to have long gone, then

by DeepDuh 14y ago

Is the collapse still influencing you in everyday life? I wasn't quite aware of that (sorry). For example in Sweden all signs of it seem to have long gone, then again it's been quite a bit longer in the past.

kragen 14y ago
The GDP has recovered, the provincial currencies and barter meetups have fallen out of use, and most of the asambleas populares have become irrelevant. But the retirees are still being paid a pittance, the government still can't sell bonds at a reasonable price, the creditors seized a Navy boat in Ghana a couple of months ago, and there are still people sleeping in the streets and recycling cardboard from the garbage for a living. Also, I think adverse possession is much more difficult today. The bike kitchen I'm talking about is La Fábricicleta, and it's hosted by the Asamblea Popular de Villa Urquiza, which is dominated by anarchists and is one of the few asambleas that hasn't become irrelevant.
jholman 14y ago
Because the world is a complicated place and I am ignorant, I was confused by this remark. So after ten minutes on wikipedia, I thought I'd share what I learned, to contextualize DeepDuh and kragen's references to economic collapse. Note that I am not an expert, this is just what I gathered from WP and a few other sources. Sweden had a financial crisis in the early 90s (perhaps 1990 to 1993). This was partly due to a real estate bubble in the 80s which collapsed. Unemployment "soared" (from ~2% to ~10%, which many countries would be fairly happy with). The central bank at one point set overnight interest rates at 500% (!!!). Yikes. At one point the federal deficit was 15% of GDP. Sweden recovered through the mid-90s. Their unemployment rate continues to be much higher than pre-1990, but they've run a budget surplus most years since 1998 (everyone is envious). Argentina had a completely unrelated crash, about 10 years later. It started in 1998 (by which point Sweden was firmly recovered). There was an IMF bailout, but Argentina couldn't hold up their end of the deal, and the bailout collapsed. 20% economy shrink, 25% unemployment, peso devalued by 75%, rampant poverty, holy crap that sounds really really not fun at all. In 2002, there was a two week period with five different presidents, what the hell. Macroeconomic indicators start getting better by 2002; the government has run a small budget surplus for most of the time since then, and unemployment returned to the single digits by 2007 (still worse than a lot of countries, but 7% today is a hell of a lot better than 25% in 1999). And that's what I learned this morning. Who knows what the afternoon will bring?
- kragen 14y ago
  I didn't realize DeepDuh was talking about a 1990s event; I thought he meant some Swedish crisis that was much longer ago.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- DeepDuh 14y ago
  Thanks for the input. I didn't have the exact timeframe in mind either, I just knew it was longer ago at a time when I wasn't yet interested in political events ;-). Also, I wasn't quite aware that this stuff isn't common knowledge outside of Europe, so thanks for the reminder.

by DeepDuh 14y ago

kragen 14y ago

The GDP has recovered, the provincial currencies and barter meetups have fallen out of use, and most of the asambleas populares have become irrelevant. But the retirees are still being paid a pittance, the government still can't sell bonds at a reasonable price, the creditors seized a Navy boat in Ghana a couple of months ago, and there are still people sleeping in the streets and recycling cardboard from the garbage for a living. Also, I think adverse possession is much more difficult today. The bike kitchen I'm talking about is La Fábricicleta, and it's hosted by the Asamblea Popular de Villa Urquiza, which is dominated by anarchists and is one of the few asambleas that hasn't become irrelevant.

jholman 14y ago

Because the world is a complicated place and I am ignorant, I was confused by this remark. So after ten minutes on wikipedia, I thought I'd share what I learned, to contextualize DeepDuh and kragen's references to economic collapse. Note that I am not an expert, this is just what I gathered from WP and a few other sources. Sweden had a financial crisis in the early 90s (perhaps 1990 to 1993). This was partly due to a real estate bubble in the 80s which collapsed. Unemployment "soared" (from ~2% to ~10%, which many countries would be fairly happy with). The central bank at one point set overnight interest rates at 500% (!!!). Yikes. At one point the federal deficit was 15% of GDP. Sweden recovered through the mid-90s. Their unemployment rate continues to be much higher than pre-1990, but they've run a budget surplus most years since 1998 (everyone is envious). Argentina had a completely unrelated crash, about 10 years later. It started in 1998 (by which point Sweden was firmly recovered). There was an IMF bailout, but Argentina couldn't hold up their end of the deal, and the bailout collapsed. 20% economy shrink, 25% unemployment, peso devalued by 75%, rampant poverty, holy crap that sounds really really not fun at all. In 2002, there was a two week period with five different presidents, what the hell. Macroeconomic indicators start getting better by 2002; the government has run a small budget surplus for most of the time since then, and unemployment returned to the single digits by 2007 (still worse than a lot of countries, but 7% today is a hell of a lot better than 25% in 1999). And that's what I learned this morning. Who knows what the afternoon will bring?

kragen 14y ago
I didn't realize DeepDuh was talking about a 1990s event; I thought he meant some Swedish crisis that was much longer ago.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
DeepDuh 14y ago
Thanks for the input. I didn't have the exact timeframe in mind either, I just knew it was longer ago at a time when I wasn't yet interested in political events ;-). Also, I wasn't quite aware that this stuff isn't common knowledge outside of Europe, so thanks for the reminder.