6 ms·

Could you elaborate? I found those sections to be the most interesting.

by marvin 18y ago

ErrantX 18y ago
// Disclaimer: I work in investigating these crimes \\ His assertsion about the number of wrongly convicted people are very wrong.I would say that around 80% are "users" whereas the rest have usually stumbled across it (this is very obviosu btw: there is not often a fine line). A lot of the defence is "it was a virus" so it is one of the first checks and has been the case in only one example as I recall. We deal with all sorts of computers weekly & I have never identified CP on any of the machines that cross my desk (bar the odd image or 2 come across whilst browsing legitimate pron sites) In terms of the origins: a lot of the mild abuse is "homebrew" with a small proportion of the worst images being homemade. The majority of extreme images are, from their context, commercially produced. I cant say much about the children being forced or not (or comment on the argument of whether they are innocent or not) because I am biased due to my job and because it is wholly subjective (actually I deliberately emotionally detach from such thoughts to allow me to do my job fairly). And finally because I am involved purely in the technical side and have not met any abused persons :) I am a bit worried to say any more: it really is grazing close to a line here (silly laws ;)). Im well on the right side of said line (i'll add) but.... EDIT: edited slightly after chatting to a colleague :)
- Hexstream 18y ago
  "I deliberately emotionally detach from such thoughts to allow me to do my job fairly" How do you do that? (neutral question)
  - ErrantX 18y ago
    Great question thanks In terms of viewing images it is quite hard. Partly I manage it due to my personality (empathy troubles etc. which is ideal for disconnecting). Mostly though it is by multi threading: I program & pen test for the company I work at so I occupy my mind with programming/hacking problems for later whilst leaving part of me on neutral to process cases. And then just through sheer will power :) At first it was difficult to do but I find it easier and easier to function perfectly normally (i.e. thoroughly and effectively do an investigation) whilst not fully connecting with the content :) (Also we use hash analysis to cut down the amount of actual content we view - standard practice). If you mean in terms of not feeling angry at suspects etc. - that is difficult but I find ways to channel my dislike outside of work (kickboxing, occasionally alcohol, arguing with my GF):) and carefully control it when in the office. Again - practice makes that easier. Not for everyone but I (and I hesitate to use this word because of the context) enjoy it.
    - Retric 18y ago
      I salute you. Most people who deal with the darker side of humanity see / learn things they wish they could unsee. But, I suspect your job is far more difficult than most.
      - sho 18y ago
        Well I don't salute him at all. Think about what he's doing. He is examining computers for illegal information. An illegal series of bytes. This is utterly insane. You can make up whatever justification you want, but to me the very existence, the very possibility of existence, of illegal information is absolutely, 180˚ opposed to everything I believe in. As far as I am concerned, people like ErrantX are actively working to undermine free society. The fact that many of these illegal files are simply scans of magazines you could apparently buy, completely legally, over the counter, in the 1970s, just adds that last twist of "We have always been at war with Eurasia" doublethink frisson.
        jpd 18y ago
        Photography is strange; it exists solely to please the eye. One can say that the act of looking at it, is similar to how one would USE other sorts of information, and although that's not quite right either it serves well-enough (in reality intentions matter when talking about this issue, otherwise the cops that verify someone has CP are criminals themselves.) So, that said, it's not the HAVING the information that matters, it's the using of it. If I have your bank account information on my computer it's not illegal for me to have it (I think), but it would certainly give me jail time if I used it to take money out of your account.
        aditya 18y ago
        Right. And your free society would actually celebrate people that produce and distribute things like child pornography, hell, you'd actually sell your own children into the business, right? I'm sorry but anarchy and freedom from coercion such as taxes are good things that we'd be interested in talking about as hackers, but you're coming out in support of child porn to support your claim of freedom. There is no doublethink here, child porn is wrong, that is objective reality.

Could you elaborate? I found those sections to be the most interesting.

by marvin 18y ago

Could you elaborate? I found those sections to be the most interesting.

// Disclaimer: I work in investigating these crimes \\ His assertsion about the number of wrongly convicted people are very wrong.I would say that around 80% are "users" whereas the rest have usually stumbled across it (this is very obviosu btw: there is not often a fine line). A lot of the defence is "it was a virus" so it is one of the first checks and has been the case in only one example as I recall. We deal with all sorts of computers weekly & I have never identified CP on any of the machines that cross my desk (bar the odd image or 2 come across whilst browsing legitimate pron sites) In terms of the origins: a lot of the mild abuse is "homebrew" with a small proportion of the worst images being homemade. The majority of extreme images are, from their context, commercially produced. I cant say much about the children being forced or not (or comment on the argument of whether they are innocent or not) because I am biased due to my job and because it is wholly subjective (actually I deliberately emotionally detach from such thoughts to allow me to do my job fairly). And finally because I am involved purely in the technical side and have not met any abused persons :) I am a bit worried to say any more: it really is grazing close to a line here (silly laws ;)). Im well on the right side of said line (i'll add) but.... EDIT: edited slightly after chatting to a colleague :)

Hexstream 18y ago
"I deliberately emotionally detach from such thoughts to allow me to do my job fairly" How do you do that? (neutral question)
- ErrantX 18y ago
  Great question thanks In terms of viewing images it is quite hard. Partly I manage it due to my personality (empathy troubles etc. which is ideal for disconnecting). Mostly though it is by multi threading: I program & pen test for the company I work at so I occupy my mind with programming/hacking problems for later whilst leaving part of me on neutral to process cases. And then just through sheer will power :) At first it was difficult to do but I find it easier and easier to function perfectly normally (i.e. thoroughly and effectively do an investigation) whilst not fully connecting with the content :) (Also we use hash analysis to cut down the amount of actual content we view - standard practice). If you mean in terms of not feeling angry at suspects etc. - that is difficult but I find ways to channel my dislike outside of work (kickboxing, occasionally alcohol, arguing with my GF):) and carefully control it when in the office. Again - practice makes that easier. Not for everyone but I (and I hesitate to use this word because of the context) enjoy it.
  - Retric 18y ago
    I salute you. Most people who deal with the darker side of humanity see / learn things they wish they could unsee. But, I suspect your job is far more difficult than most.
    - sho 18y ago
      Well I don't salute him at all. Think about what he's doing. He is examining computers for illegal information. An illegal series of bytes. This is utterly insane. You can make up whatever justification you want, but to me the very existence, the very possibility of existence, of illegal information is absolutely, 180˚ opposed to everything I believe in. As far as I am concerned, people like ErrantX are actively working to undermine free society. The fact that many of these illegal files are simply scans of magazines you could apparently buy, completely legally, over the counter, in the 1970s, just adds that last twist of "We have always been at war with Eurasia" doublethink frisson.
      - jpd 18y ago
        Photography is strange; it exists solely to please the eye. One can say that the act of looking at it, is similar to how one would USE other sorts of information, and although that's not quite right either it serves well-enough (in reality intentions matter when talking about this issue, otherwise the cops that verify someone has CP are criminals themselves.) So, that said, it's not the HAVING the information that matters, it's the using of it. If I have your bank account information on my computer it's not illegal for me to have it (I think), but it would certainly give me jail time if I used it to take money out of your account.
      - aditya 18y ago
        Right. And your free society would actually celebrate people that produce and distribute things like child pornography, hell, you'd actually sell your own children into the business, right? I'm sorry but anarchy and freedom from coercion such as taxes are good things that we'd be interested in talking about as hackers, but you're coming out in support of child porn to support your claim of freedom. There is no doublethink here, child porn is wrong, that is objective reality.