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One big difference is that heat (and thus warm air) is a by-product of internal combustion, so a typical car's heater will ALWAYS work, which turns out to be cr

One big difference is that heat (and thus warm air) is a by-product of internal combustion, so a typical car's heater will ALWAYS work, which turns out to be critical for survival in certain climates. Having the A/C go down in extremely hot weather will leave you uncomfortable; having the heater go down in extremely cold weather can kill you.

smackfu 14y ago
Yeah, it seems like "less than optimal conditions" for the Tesla are 2/3 of the year in the Northeast US. Which is not great.
ricardobeat 14y ago
In both cases (electric and gas) the heater stops working when the fuel ends.
- WiseWeasel 14y ago
  This is a good point, with a few caveats: 1) gasoline-fueled cars have a significantly higher range than their electric battery-fueled peers, 2) heat is "free" in a gas-fueled car where it's an added cost in electric battery-fueled cars, and 3) gas range is more predictable than battery capacity, the latter of which being more sensitive to ambient temperature. These factors contribute to a significant advantage for gasoline-fueled cars in colder climates.
  - ceejayoz 14y ago
    > 1) gasoline-fueled cars have a significantly higher range than their electric battery-fueled peers, The Tesla's 300 mile range is pretty close to most of the gas-powered cars I've owned here in the US. > 2) heat is "free" in a gas-fueled car where it's an added cost in electric battery-fueled cars, and Yes, but idling an electric car is free, where it's an added cost in gasoline-fueled cars. If I slide into a ditch in winter and get stuck, I'm going to be depleting my fuel either way.
    - WiseWeasel 14y ago
      With a 16-gallon tank at 25MPG, you'd get 400 driving miles out of a tank, and many hours of idling (assuming typical consumption of 1/4 to 1/2 gallon per hour idling gives us a minimum of 32 hours on a 16-gallon tank of gas). It's not clear how long you could run just the heater on a model S, but I'd assume it's over a day on a relatively full charge. Still, 33% more range is nothing to sneeze at. While I'm at it, I'll also note the density of gas stations as a huge advantage over the relatively sparse network of battery charging stations, which can certainly add to the anxiety of winter driving, as mentioned in the review.
jonknee 14y ago
The author "had" to go heat off because he neglected to charge his vehicle. If you don't put gas into your conventional car it will also pose a safety concern in the winter.
ceejayoz 14y ago
> One big difference is that heat (and thus warm air) is a by-product of internal combustion, so a typical car's heater will ALWAYS work, which turns out to be critical for survival in certain climates. It'll work as long as you have gas, just as the Tesla's will work as long as you have battery.
- marvin 14y ago
  Was just what I was thinking. Running out of gas, or having your engine crash in -40 degree Celcius weather is a life-threatening situation if you've been stupid and not packed any clothes.
dalke 14y ago
I just want to tell my atypical story. I moved to Illinois from Florida, for grad school. My car was 12 years old. I had bought it used in Miami. The A/C worked fine. Come November of my First Real Winter, I find that the heater didn't work at all. Probably a stuck switch somewhere, having not been moved for years. Decided it was cheaper to keep all my gear on while driving than to get the car fixed. Made for some very cold trips. I wouldn't want to drive in those critically cold areas without blankets/sleeping bag in case there was a problem and the car broke down. I've not been in temperatures cold enough for me to be unable to survive for an hour, with the clothes and blanket I've had in the car. (Worst was when I locked myself out of the car in the NM desert and had to sleep overnight in my coat in ~20F weather until a nearby store opened the next morning.) And I wouldn't want to drive in the desert SW without lots of extra water, for the same reason.

smackfu 14y ago

Yeah, it seems like "less than optimal conditions" for the Tesla are 2/3 of the year in the Northeast US. Which is not great.

ricardobeat 14y ago

In both cases (electric and gas) the heater stops working when the fuel ends.

WiseWeasel 14y ago
This is a good point, with a few caveats: 1) gasoline-fueled cars have a significantly higher range than their electric battery-fueled peers, 2) heat is "free" in a gas-fueled car where it's an added cost in electric battery-fueled cars, and 3) gas range is more predictable than battery capacity, the latter of which being more sensitive to ambient temperature. These factors contribute to a significant advantage for gasoline-fueled cars in colder climates.
- ceejayoz 14y ago
  > 1) gasoline-fueled cars have a significantly higher range than their electric battery-fueled peers, The Tesla's 300 mile range is pretty close to most of the gas-powered cars I've owned here in the US. > 2) heat is "free" in a gas-fueled car where it's an added cost in electric battery-fueled cars, and Yes, but idling an electric car is free, where it's an added cost in gasoline-fueled cars. If I slide into a ditch in winter and get stuck, I'm going to be depleting my fuel either way.
  - WiseWeasel 14y ago
    With a 16-gallon tank at 25MPG, you'd get 400 driving miles out of a tank, and many hours of idling (assuming typical consumption of 1/4 to 1/2 gallon per hour idling gives us a minimum of 32 hours on a 16-gallon tank of gas). It's not clear how long you could run just the heater on a model S, but I'd assume it's over a day on a relatively full charge. Still, 33% more range is nothing to sneeze at. While I'm at it, I'll also note the density of gas stations as a huge advantage over the relatively sparse network of battery charging stations, which can certainly add to the anxiety of winter driving, as mentioned in the review.

jonknee 14y ago

The author "had" to go heat off because he neglected to charge his vehicle. If you don't put gas into your conventional car it will also pose a safety concern in the winter.

ceejayoz 14y ago

> One big difference is that heat (and thus warm air) is a by-product of internal combustion, so a typical car's heater will ALWAYS work, which turns out to be critical for survival in certain climates. It'll work as long as you have gas, just as the Tesla's will work as long as you have battery.

marvin 14y ago
Was just what I was thinking. Running out of gas, or having your engine crash in -40 degree Celcius weather is a life-threatening situation if you've been stupid and not packed any clothes.

dalke 14y ago

I just want to tell my atypical story. I moved to Illinois from Florida, for grad school. My car was 12 years old. I had bought it used in Miami. The A/C worked fine. Come November of my First Real Winter, I find that the heater didn't work at all. Probably a stuck switch somewhere, having not been moved for years. Decided it was cheaper to keep all my gear on while driving than to get the car fixed. Made for some very cold trips. I wouldn't want to drive in those critically cold areas without blankets/sleeping bag in case there was a problem and the car broke down. I've not been in temperatures cold enough for me to be unable to survive for an hour, with the clothes and blanket I've had in the car. (Worst was when I locked myself out of the car in the NM desert and had to sleep overnight in my coat in ~20F weather until a nearby store opened the next morning.) And I wouldn't want to drive in the desert SW without lots of extra water, for the same reason.