4 ms·

I'm skeptical of Musk's claim that the review was fabricated. What motive would the author have to fake the review? He would lose all of his credibility as a re

I'm skeptical of Musk's claim that the review was fabricated. What motive would the author have to fake the review? He would lose all of his credibility as a reporter, essentially killing his carer if anyone found out. Seems like a really high price to pay. That said, Musk also has a lot to lose by calling out a reporter for fabricating data. It's a pretty serious allegation, and he could get into hot water over it. Therefore, my intuition is that either: 1) Musk is not reading the data correctly, missing some important details, or 2) The data was recorded incorrectly by the car. My bets are on (2).

el_cuadrado 14y ago
According to this logic, reporters should not lie about anything. Unfortunately, this phrase: "lose all of his credibility as a reporter" is already an oxymoron.
- stdgy 14y ago
  I'm not particularly optimistic about modern journalistic integrity, but the New York Times is a far cry from being a 'TMZ'. They're an organization I respect and trust, and I suspect I'm not alone. I'll be very upset if the data clearly supports Musk's claims.
yajoe 14y ago
Apparently lying or exaggerating is common in 'journalism.' Probably based on our desire to weave narratives. I don't disagree with you or know anything about this case, but let me provide an anecdote where (1) seems more likely despite the abundance of attention, reputation, and high stakes (I just read this on plane yesterday by coincidence): http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323951904578290341604113984.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732395190457829... Context on cultural significance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Cold_Blood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Cold_Blood
nlh 14y ago
I have absolutely no idea what the facts of this case are - BUT - to your point, an author's motive to "enhance" his reporting a very simple: It makes for a more interesting story. A more interesting story gets more views, more people talk about it, and it enhances the (perceived) reputation of the reporter. Also, as much as it pains me to say it, there's precedence for this sort of thing. Simply put: reporters make shit up from time to time. Again, however, I have absolutely no idea who's right/wrong here and won't make a single assumption until the facts are out.
roc 14y ago
> "Seems like a really high price to pay." And yet Jayson Blair and Judith Miller rolled those dice. And that's just to name two high profile cases at that same paper. I wouldn't be so sure that's such a rare thing.
Swannie 14y ago
Why? Writers are expected to deliver a "good read". Nothing beats a bit of tragedy! Writing a review that stands out against lots of positive reviews can give you a reputation as someone who isn't scared of controversy. This could have been a career boosting "critical" review. The industry at large is still pro-petroleum. Want a reputation as pro-electric? Annoy your mainstream motoring marketing departments - the ones that lend you a stream of high quality vehicles to try, take you to track days, invite you to nice launch events, if you're lucky, fly you to their German HQ for new launches...
- mikec3k 14y ago
  That's it exactly. You don't want to piss off the oil companies, so you always make electric or hybrid vehicles look as bad as possible.
  - Swannie 14y ago
    Yes. It's not a direct comparison, but you don't see motoring journalists complaining about running out of petrol. "I only though I had to put $5 in... and it told me it was no longer empty... why did I run out 100miles down the road?"
iooi 14y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism
PeterisP 14y ago
While not lying, it is common to exaggerate details as putting them in a more colorful light makes for more interesting articles that attract more readers. Pretty much all major media are doing that.
Steko 14y ago
"What motive would the author have to fake the review?" No one is saying he faked the whole review just that he omitted a couple heavily mitigating details. Since there were multiple legs where the car was claimed to come up short it will be interesting to see if all of those are refuted by the data or not.
- hullo 14y ago
  Elon Musk: "NYTimes article about Tesla range in cold is fake." https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/301049593385340928 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/301049593385340928 From another article the "long detour" appears to have been getting stuck in traffic in lower Manhattan. Now, I don't know if Elon does much NYC driving, but IMO it's not worth pinning your credibility on a quick trip back to the interstate from the city.
imjk 14y ago
It's interesting that they put an energy/climate journalist on this review as opposed to an automobile specialist. You can see the authors article archive here: http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/john_m_broder/index.html http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b...
VeejayRampay 14y ago
One of the motives I can think of is rather simple: oil in the USA is a BIG economy, one that the likes of Tesla Motors would more than likely disrupt. Maybe it is in the best interests for some people to keep at the status quo for a while longer.
beedogs 14y ago
> What motive would the author have to fake the review? Have you ever noticed who advertises heavily in newspapers? Lots of auto dealerships and car manufacturers.

el_cuadrado 14y ago

According to this logic, reporters should not lie about anything. Unfortunately, this phrase: "lose all of his credibility as a reporter" is already an oxymoron.

stdgy 14y ago
I'm not particularly optimistic about modern journalistic integrity, but the New York Times is a far cry from being a 'TMZ'. They're an organization I respect and trust, and I suspect I'm not alone. I'll be very upset if the data clearly supports Musk's claims.

yajoe 14y ago

Apparently lying or exaggerating is common in 'journalism.' Probably based on our desire to weave narratives. I don't disagree with you or know anything about this case, but let me provide an anecdote where (1) seems more likely despite the abundance of attention, reputation, and high stakes (I just read this on plane yesterday by coincidence): http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323951904578290341604113984.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732395190457829... Context on cultural significance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Cold_Blood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Cold_Blood

nlh 14y ago

I have absolutely no idea what the facts of this case are - BUT - to your point, an author's motive to "enhance" his reporting a very simple: It makes for a more interesting story. A more interesting story gets more views, more people talk about it, and it enhances the (perceived) reputation of the reporter. Also, as much as it pains me to say it, there's precedence for this sort of thing. Simply put: reporters make shit up from time to time. Again, however, I have absolutely no idea who's right/wrong here and won't make a single assumption until the facts are out.

roc 14y ago

> "Seems like a really high price to pay." And yet Jayson Blair and Judith Miller rolled those dice. And that's just to name two high profile cases at that same paper. I wouldn't be so sure that's such a rare thing.

Swannie 14y ago

Why? Writers are expected to deliver a "good read". Nothing beats a bit of tragedy! Writing a review that stands out against lots of positive reviews can give you a reputation as someone who isn't scared of controversy. This could have been a career boosting "critical" review. The industry at large is still pro-petroleum. Want a reputation as pro-electric? Annoy your mainstream motoring marketing departments - the ones that lend you a stream of high quality vehicles to try, take you to track days, invite you to nice launch events, if you're lucky, fly you to their German HQ for new launches...

mikec3k 14y ago
That's it exactly. You don't want to piss off the oil companies, so you always make electric or hybrid vehicles look as bad as possible.
- Swannie 14y ago
  Yes. It's not a direct comparison, but you don't see motoring journalists complaining about running out of petrol. "I only though I had to put $5 in... and it told me it was no longer empty... why did I run out 100miles down the road?"

iooi 14y ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism

PeterisP 14y ago

While not lying, it is common to exaggerate details as putting them in a more colorful light makes for more interesting articles that attract more readers. Pretty much all major media are doing that.

Steko 14y ago

"What motive would the author have to fake the review?" No one is saying he faked the whole review just that he omitted a couple heavily mitigating details. Since there were multiple legs where the car was claimed to come up short it will be interesting to see if all of those are refuted by the data or not.

hullo 14y ago
Elon Musk: "NYTimes article about Tesla range in cold is fake." https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/301049593385340928 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/301049593385340928 From another article the "long detour" appears to have been getting stuck in traffic in lower Manhattan. Now, I don't know if Elon does much NYC driving, but IMO it's not worth pinning your credibility on a quick trip back to the interstate from the city.

imjk 14y ago

It's interesting that they put an energy/climate journalist on this review as opposed to an automobile specialist. You can see the authors article archive here: http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/john_m_broder/index.html http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b...

VeejayRampay 14y ago

One of the motives I can think of is rather simple: oil in the USA is a BIG economy, one that the likes of Tesla Motors would more than likely disrupt. Maybe it is in the best interests for some people to keep at the status quo for a while longer.

beedogs 14y ago

> What motive would the author have to fake the review? Have you ever noticed who advertises heavily in newspapers? Lots of auto dealerships and car manufacturers.