3 ms·

Hey, what about all those guys that are used to "Plug-and-play" tools like Visual Studio? That don't want to rediscover the common problems and spend countless

Hey, what about all those guys that are used to "Plug-and-play" tools like Visual Studio? That don't want to rediscover the common problems and spend countless hours trying to figure out how to do something slightly less trivial than just Hello, World? What if somebody just wants to get things working fast and does not want to learn how to make the cursor move up in vim? There are for sure a lot of guys used to simple tools like vim, but there are also plenty of people that believe that tools are just tools and the more intuitive the tools are the better it is. And as for the development today, it's becoming more and more about the result and not about the process. About how fast you can get your application or game up and running. And hours spent on figuring out why something is not working when it should is becoming rather an avoidable annoyance than the experience of "real" programming.

wwweston 14y ago
> the more intuitive the tools are the better it is. "Intuitive" is a pretty vague virtue, and I'm not sure that VS has it. If we're talking about discoverability of a feature, I guess you could say a tool that exposes most of its options and features through a wide swath of icons and giant tree of menus leading to various dialog boxes of doom has something of an edge in that one can walk down all the paths until a desired option is found (or not found), and each point is something like a flag that says "Hey, feature here!" Then again, it's hard to tell how relevant or irrelevant it is to what your needs are, and I can similarly walk/search through documentation for a given text editor until I accomplish the same thing. > What if somebody just wants to get things working fast and does not want to learn how to make the cursor move up in vim? There are some pretty nice text editors out there that have keybindings considerably more intuitive than vim. Even gvim has two intuitive ways to move the cursor (arrow keys + mouse). There's the question of which keybindings are most rewarding to the user who puts time in, too. The longer you're going to spend in a tool, the more important this is relative to how easily discoverable features are. > it's becoming more and more about the result and not about the process. Becoming? > hours spent on figuring out why something is not working when it should is becoming rather an avoidable annoyance Certainly not my experience with Visual Studio over the last year.
- sysprogs 14y ago
  I guess, this is a lot about the taste and preference, but an IDE is much more than a text editor. Talking about debugging, there's an illustrated listing of top 10 Visual Studio debugging tricks here: http://visualgdb.com/debugging/ http://visualgdb.com/debugging/ It would be interesting to see how could one do something as efficient with just a text editor.
- bitwize 14y ago
  a tool that exposes most of its options and features through a wide swath of icons and giant tree of menus leading to various dialog boxes of doom To a certain class of developer, not exposing every feature in this way is a CRITICAL SECURITY BUG. See: http://web.archive.org/web/20040701202236/http://www.worldtechtribune.com/worldtechtribune/asparticles/buzz/bz12282002.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20040701202236/http://www.worldte...
lifeguard 14y ago
Microsoft development is a dead end for the desktop and web. Not what the RPi was designed for, but who cares. Have fun astroturfing!

wwweston 14y ago

> the more intuitive the tools are the better it is. "Intuitive" is a pretty vague virtue, and I'm not sure that VS has it. If we're talking about discoverability of a feature, I guess you could say a tool that exposes most of its options and features through a wide swath of icons and giant tree of menus leading to various dialog boxes of doom has something of an edge in that one can walk down all the paths until a desired option is found (or not found), and each point is something like a flag that says "Hey, feature here!" Then again, it's hard to tell how relevant or irrelevant it is to what your needs are, and I can similarly walk/search through documentation for a given text editor until I accomplish the same thing. > What if somebody just wants to get things working fast and does not want to learn how to make the cursor move up in vim? There are some pretty nice text editors out there that have keybindings considerably more intuitive than vim. Even gvim has two intuitive ways to move the cursor (arrow keys + mouse). There's the question of which keybindings are most rewarding to the user who puts time in, too. The longer you're going to spend in a tool, the more important this is relative to how easily discoverable features are. > it's becoming more and more about the result and not about the process. Becoming? > hours spent on figuring out why something is not working when it should is becoming rather an avoidable annoyance Certainly not my experience with Visual Studio over the last year.

sysprogs 14y ago
I guess, this is a lot about the taste and preference, but an IDE is much more than a text editor. Talking about debugging, there's an illustrated listing of top 10 Visual Studio debugging tricks here: http://visualgdb.com/debugging/ http://visualgdb.com/debugging/ It would be interesting to see how could one do something as efficient with just a text editor.
bitwize 14y ago
a tool that exposes most of its options and features through a wide swath of icons and giant tree of menus leading to various dialog boxes of doom To a certain class of developer, not exposing every feature in this way is a CRITICAL SECURITY BUG. See: http://web.archive.org/web/20040701202236/http://www.worldtechtribune.com/worldtechtribune/asparticles/buzz/bz12282002.asp http://web.archive.org/web/20040701202236/http://www.worldte...

lifeguard 14y ago

Microsoft development is a dead end for the desktop and web. Not what the RPi was designed for, but who cares. Have fun astroturfing!