3 ms·

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for unrepentant murderers, regardless of who they have murdered.

mkr-hn 14y ago
You wouldn't get all these downvotes if you put any amount of thought into your comment. Right now it's a one-line potshot at someone who is widely seen as doing a good thing.
- mempko 14y ago
  In a more civil society, people go to trial for accusations, especially ones as serious as terrorism. I think it says a lot about our society that it is widely seen as a 'good thing' that we kill out of passion.
  - cobrausn 14y ago
    If you think he was killed 'out of passion', then you are not thinking. It was an execution of a war criminal.
    - lazyjones 14y ago
      > It was an execution of a war criminal. Proof? Due process? Even Saddam Hussein got a trial and he was known to have been responsible for war crimes at the time, not just declared as such by media, politicians etc. ...
  - mkr-hn 14y ago
    He killed a man who declared war on my country, attacked it successfully twice (both WTC bombings), carried out attacks on my country's assets overseas, and was (apparently) plotting new ones. I would have preferred it if bin Laden stood trial, but he knew the risks he was taking when he did these things. We have many admissions of guilt on video, so I don't think it would be a long trial if he got one.
  - comrh 14y ago
    Love the rose colored glasses but we are at war. The only reason we even got trials in WW2 was after the conflict ended, this conflict seems to be almost endless.
- L4mppu 14y ago
  Who has done more wrong US army or Al Qaeda? Killed more civilians? Done for money or faith? Which is more important money or faith? What about Trial and Bin Laden's rights? Why wouldn't Obama be killed for killing civilians?
  - mkr-hn 14y ago
    My country's actions should be litigated separately. We're talking about Osama bin Laden and the man who shot him.
gamegoblin 14y ago
What do you think would have been a better alternative to the raid in which Osama Bin Laden was killed?
- L4mppu 14y ago
  Not rushing to war just because you want oil?
  - cobrausn 14y ago
    Please, tell me about all the oil in Afghanistan, and all the oil gained in a night border raid in Pakistan. Seriously, stop spewing rhetoric. It's embarrassing.
  - gamegoblin 14y ago
    I didn't ask about the wars. I asked about the assassination of Osama Bin Laden.
lsc 14y ago
Murder is unlawful killing; Whatever you think about this from a moral perspective, it was not unlawful. More to the point, Personally? I think the 17 year olds we throw into actual battle are the least morally culpable of us all. They have to face the physical consequences of an enemy who actively fights back; they have to face the psychological consequences of having killed another human. And they have to make the decision (the decision to become part of the military machine or not) usually at an age where none of us are equipped to make that sort of decision. You and I? we're paying for it. If our government is right (and I don't know that they are) we are benefiting from it. I think that you and I, assuming you are a tax paying US citizen like I am, are in many ways more culpable for the unjust killings our country commits than the 17 year olds that actually pull the trigger. (well, that, and while the war in Iraq looks completely unjustified from my perspective, with the information I have, killing bin laden, well, I'm not sure it's the right thing to do, but it certainly has more justification than invading Iraq.)
- dopamean 14y ago
  I agree with everything you've said here. But just for the sake of argument...unlawful is sort of subjective isnt it? Might the unannounced raid and killing of a man on Pakistani soil be considered unlawful in Pakistan?
  - lsc 14y ago
    "lawful" certainly depends on what laws you follow. I am, of course, speaking as an American. I think that everyone would agree that the soldier in question was also an American, working under US law. I mean, yes, I'd bet a Pakistani would see the matter differently; But usually, to charge someone with a crime like murder, you need something of a "Mens rea" - the state of mind of the person doing the killing matters quite a lot. In this case, the soldier could reasonably have thought he was acting lawfully under US law, and was reasonably justified in believing that US law was what he had a responsibility to follow. How should conflicts of law be resolved between countries? I don't know. Usually, it seems, the laws of the more powerful country prevails, which obviously has little to do with justice. But personally, I think that if blame is to be assigned, blame ought to be pointed at our government (or, at the very least, higher ups in our government; not the kid who actually had to pull the trigger.)
cobrausn 14y ago
Bin Laden was an admitted architect of mass murder. I'd have felt better if they carried out a trial with him in abstentia and sentenced him to death before his execution, but so be it - his killing was justified.
- camus 14y ago
  Bin Laden gave the money , he did not plan 911 attacks. All he did is finance terrorism , Saudis and Pakistanese gvt still do , yet I did not see USA invade S.A and Pakistan.

You wouldn't get all these downvotes if you put any amount of thought into your comment. Right now it's a one-line potshot at someone who is widely seen as doing a good thing.

mempko 14y ago
In a more civil society, people go to trial for accusations, especially ones as serious as terrorism. I think it says a lot about our society that it is widely seen as a 'good thing' that we kill out of passion.
- cobrausn 14y ago
  If you think he was killed 'out of passion', then you are not thinking. It was an execution of a war criminal.
  - lazyjones 14y ago
    > It was an execution of a war criminal. Proof? Due process? Even Saddam Hussein got a trial and he was known to have been responsible for war crimes at the time, not just declared as such by media, politicians etc. ...
- mkr-hn 14y ago
  He killed a man who declared war on my country, attacked it successfully twice (both WTC bombings), carried out attacks on my country's assets overseas, and was (apparently) plotting new ones. I would have preferred it if bin Laden stood trial, but he knew the risks he was taking when he did these things. We have many admissions of guilt on video, so I don't think it would be a long trial if he got one.
- comrh 14y ago
  Love the rose colored glasses but we are at war. The only reason we even got trials in WW2 was after the conflict ended, this conflict seems to be almost endless.
L4mppu 14y ago
Who has done more wrong US army or Al Qaeda? Killed more civilians? Done for money or faith? Which is more important money or faith? What about Trial and Bin Laden's rights? Why wouldn't Obama be killed for killing civilians?
- mkr-hn 14y ago
  My country's actions should be litigated separately. We're talking about Osama bin Laden and the man who shot him.

gamegoblin 14y ago

What do you think would have been a better alternative to the raid in which Osama Bin Laden was killed?

L4mppu 14y ago
Not rushing to war just because you want oil?
- cobrausn 14y ago
  Please, tell me about all the oil in Afghanistan, and all the oil gained in a night border raid in Pakistan. Seriously, stop spewing rhetoric. It's embarrassing.
- gamegoblin 14y ago
  I didn't ask about the wars. I asked about the assassination of Osama Bin Laden.

lsc 14y ago

Murder is unlawful killing; Whatever you think about this from a moral perspective, it was not unlawful. More to the point, Personally? I think the 17 year olds we throw into actual battle are the least morally culpable of us all. They have to face the physical consequences of an enemy who actively fights back; they have to face the psychological consequences of having killed another human. And they have to make the decision (the decision to become part of the military machine or not) usually at an age where none of us are equipped to make that sort of decision. You and I? we're paying for it. If our government is right (and I don't know that they are) we are benefiting from it. I think that you and I, assuming you are a tax paying US citizen like I am, are in many ways more culpable for the unjust killings our country commits than the 17 year olds that actually pull the trigger. (well, that, and while the war in Iraq looks completely unjustified from my perspective, with the information I have, killing bin laden, well, I'm not sure it's the right thing to do, but it certainly has more justification than invading Iraq.)

dopamean 14y ago
I agree with everything you've said here. But just for the sake of argument...unlawful is sort of subjective isnt it? Might the unannounced raid and killing of a man on Pakistani soil be considered unlawful in Pakistan?
- lsc 14y ago
  "lawful" certainly depends on what laws you follow. I am, of course, speaking as an American. I think that everyone would agree that the soldier in question was also an American, working under US law. I mean, yes, I'd bet a Pakistani would see the matter differently; But usually, to charge someone with a crime like murder, you need something of a "Mens rea" - the state of mind of the person doing the killing matters quite a lot. In this case, the soldier could reasonably have thought he was acting lawfully under US law, and was reasonably justified in believing that US law was what he had a responsibility to follow. How should conflicts of law be resolved between countries? I don't know. Usually, it seems, the laws of the more powerful country prevails, which obviously has little to do with justice. But personally, I think that if blame is to be assigned, blame ought to be pointed at our government (or, at the very least, higher ups in our government; not the kid who actually had to pull the trigger.)

cobrausn 14y ago

Bin Laden was an admitted architect of mass murder. I'd have felt better if they carried out a trial with him in abstentia and sentenced him to death before his execution, but so be it - his killing was justified.

camus 14y ago
Bin Laden gave the money , he did not plan 911 attacks. All he did is finance terrorism , Saudis and Pakistanese gvt still do , yet I did not see USA invade S.A and Pakistan.