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This is complete FUD. First of all, I'm not familiar with Merb but didn't it merge with Rails? Regarding Rails.app, how is it languishing? Yehuda has given stat

by devinus 14y ago

This is complete FUD. First of all, I'm not familiar with Merb but didn't it merge with Rails? Regarding Rails.app, how is it languishing? Yehuda has given status updates[1] and code is on Github right now[2]. SproutCore continues to be developed to this day[3]. Ember was briefly named Amber for about a day. What are you talking about? [1]: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1397300529/railsapp/posts/393849 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1397300529/railsapp/post... [2]: https://github.com/tokaido https://github.com/tokaido [3]: https://github.com/sproutcore/sproutcore https://github.com/sproutcore/sproutcore

mrgordon 14y ago
Merb and Rails did merge, but that doesn't mean any reasonably sized Merb codebases had any hope to migrate. It's a different framework with a different ORM. All those developers that followed Katz early on got burned when he joined Rails core. I do believe Rails.app will be released and Katz has recently given an update (it's dated January 27) but the first dozen comments at http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1397300529/railsapp/comments http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1397300529/railsapp/comm... will show that there has been some community concern that they bought into vaporware/Ember.js. Those comments went on from November 15 to January 25 before a Hacker News post solicited a comment. In regards to SproutCore, I was referring to SproutCore 2.0 which became Amber which became Ember.js. Ember.js seems to be coming together nicely, but we are already supporting 4 completely incompatible versions of it. Admittedly we are still at ember-1.0.0-pre.2 and I'm sure the APIs will eventually solidify, but it feels like even new patch versions have been radically incompatible. Definitely excited to see Rails 4, Ember 1.0, etc. for the record. I just have spent a significant amount of time cleaning up the messes of abandoned Merb codebases so I couldn't help but point out that Katz's legacy has been, at best, mixed here.
jamie_ca 14y ago
As someone who worked on a Merb app fulltime for about 4 years (before merb 1.0 through to well after rails 3 released) it's more accurate to say that Rails got rearchitected with some of the good ideas Merb had on the backend. When the plan was originally announced, Yehuda blogged (http://yehudakatz.com/2008/12/23/rails-and-merb-merge/ http://yehudakatz.com/2008/12/23/rails-and-merb-merge/): In particular, we will do Merb releases with deprecation notices and other transitional mechanisms to assist developers in tracking down the changes that will come between Merb 1.x and Rails 3. Expect a number of interim releases that get incrementally closer to Rails 3, and expect parts of Merb (most notably the helpers) to be ported to run on Rails 3 in order to further reduce friction. This very specifically did not happen, and a lot of people are stuck on Merb or had a painful migration. Of note, Rails 3.0's first beta was released Feb 4 2010 (just over a year after the announcement), and 3.0.0 final was August 29. Merb had a 1.1 prerelease Feb 20, and the last version (1.1.3) July 10. Since then Merb has been dead. Again Yehuda: You will not be left in the cold and we’re going to do everything to make sure that your applications don’t get stuck in the past. Now I'm sure as part of the merb community I can take some small part in blame of this, but nobody, not merb developers, not rails developers, not merb users (to the best of my knowledge) wound up putting any serious stock into providing anything resembling a migration plan. Which is a shame.
coldtea 14y ago
>This is complete FUD. FUD is a mid-nineties term about certain MS practices. Best left to the mid-nineties and/or 4chan types. He made a point, make a counterpoint. No reason to call what he wrote FUD or trolling or whatever. Especially when he writes that we was personally affected by the Merb thing. >First of all, I'm not familiar with Merb but didn't it merge with Rails? How is that different from the Merb project that he relied upon being abandoned? That he was given an "upgrade path" if he took the time to rewrite his apps to use the new post-merge Rails? >Regarding Rails.app, how is it languishing? Yehuda has given status updates[1] and code is on Github right now[2]. - Status updates after someone brought the whole issue to HN attention? - With things promised to backers still not sent whole months after the promised dates? - And with taking the money to work on the project and then devoting his time in another venture? Maybe the project is not "languishing", but it sure is late. And "did something else in the meantime" is not a proper excuse to paying backers. >SproutCore continues to be developed to this day By others. But the subject matter on this subthread was Katz as a contributor, and he has migrated away long ago.

by devinus 14y ago

mrgordon 14y ago

Merb and Rails did merge, but that doesn't mean any reasonably sized Merb codebases had any hope to migrate. It's a different framework with a different ORM. All those developers that followed Katz early on got burned when he joined Rails core. I do believe Rails.app will be released and Katz has recently given an update (it's dated January 27) but the first dozen comments at http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1397300529/railsapp/comments http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1397300529/railsapp/comm... will show that there has been some community concern that they bought into vaporware/Ember.js. Those comments went on from November 15 to January 25 before a Hacker News post solicited a comment. In regards to SproutCore, I was referring to SproutCore 2.0 which became Amber which became Ember.js. Ember.js seems to be coming together nicely, but we are already supporting 4 completely incompatible versions of it. Admittedly we are still at ember-1.0.0-pre.2 and I'm sure the APIs will eventually solidify, but it feels like even new patch versions have been radically incompatible. Definitely excited to see Rails 4, Ember 1.0, etc. for the record. I just have spent a significant amount of time cleaning up the messes of abandoned Merb codebases so I couldn't help but point out that Katz's legacy has been, at best, mixed here.

jamie_ca 14y ago

As someone who worked on a Merb app fulltime for about 4 years (before merb 1.0 through to well after rails 3 released) it's more accurate to say that Rails got rearchitected with some of the good ideas Merb had on the backend. When the plan was originally announced, Yehuda blogged (http://yehudakatz.com/2008/12/23/rails-and-merb-merge/ http://yehudakatz.com/2008/12/23/rails-and-merb-merge/): In particular, we will do Merb releases with deprecation notices and other transitional mechanisms to assist developers in tracking down the changes that will come between Merb 1.x and Rails 3. Expect a number of interim releases that get incrementally closer to Rails 3, and expect parts of Merb (most notably the helpers) to be ported to run on Rails 3 in order to further reduce friction. This very specifically did not happen, and a lot of people are stuck on Merb or had a painful migration. Of note, Rails 3.0's first beta was released Feb 4 2010 (just over a year after the announcement), and 3.0.0 final was August 29. Merb had a 1.1 prerelease Feb 20, and the last version (1.1.3) July 10. Since then Merb has been dead. Again Yehuda: You will not be left in the cold and we’re going to do everything to make sure that your applications don’t get stuck in the past. Now I'm sure as part of the merb community I can take some small part in blame of this, but nobody, not merb developers, not rails developers, not merb users (to the best of my knowledge) wound up putting any serious stock into providing anything resembling a migration plan. Which is a shame.

coldtea 14y ago

>This is complete FUD. FUD is a mid-nineties term about certain MS practices. Best left to the mid-nineties and/or 4chan types. He made a point, make a counterpoint. No reason to call what he wrote FUD or trolling or whatever. Especially when he writes that we was personally affected by the Merb thing. >First of all, I'm not familiar with Merb but didn't it merge with Rails? How is that different from the Merb project that he relied upon being abandoned? That he was given an "upgrade path" if he took the time to rewrite his apps to use the new post-merge Rails? >Regarding Rails.app, how is it languishing? Yehuda has given status updates[1] and code is on Github right now[2]. - Status updates after someone brought the whole issue to HN attention? - With things promised to backers still not sent whole months after the promised dates? - And with taking the money to work on the project and then devoting his time in another venture? Maybe the project is not "languishing", but it sure is late. And "did something else in the meantime" is not a proper excuse to paying backers. >SproutCore continues to be developed to this day By others. But the subject matter on this subthread was Katz as a contributor, and he has migrated away long ago.