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I don't think that Germans have a "Title-fetish", in general they couldn't care less. I'm working in engineering, having a Physics PhD myself, but titles are ne

by cnvogel 14y ago

I don't think that Germans have a "Title-fetish", in general they couldn't care less. I'm working in engineering, having a Physics PhD myself, but titles are never mentioned in daily work. Politicians on the other hand had always tried to give themselves some additinal credibility by bragging about their alleged academic merits, but searching for plagiatism was not something anyone would seriously had thought to endanger politicians careers. I mean, it was fun to try and hunt down politicians theses but hardly would have anyone expected that a politician could loose his mandate over them. Furthermore these theses most often had been written in "the old days", and were available only on special request from a few libraries where they were collecting dust for years in some non-publicly-accessible storage room for books no one ever borrows. But then came Karl Theodor zu Guttenberg, whose thesis (written just 2007) started the whole debate about misgotten degrees in 2011. He had dismissed all charges about having cheated with unprecedented arrogance. Even though claiming to live up to higher standards, himself being a whealthy aristocrat, he had wholesale-copy-pasted the whole work from undisclosed sources, some even produced by the parliament's research service for him. By additionally handling the resulting public-relations disaster pretty inapt, he gave a unbelieveably strong boost to the plagiatism-finders, who normally would have been ridiculed as nickpicking footnote and quotation-mark-counters. Now they were the judges for the integrity of a large number of public persons. Anette Schavan is only one of many persons accused of copying a relatively few paragraphs in her thesis, not even on the same scale as Karl-Theodor, this theses would never have created the current public outcry if not preceeded by Karl-Theodor's. And she's even defended by a lot of academics that claim that this amount of un-disclosed copying, 30 years ago, would be on a level that's would not warrant the whole process that has now started and led to her demissal. I mean, she probably has written that manuscript on a mechanical typewriter, with drafts written by hand, not assisted by a software marking handling quotations automatically! But universities are under a high pressure to show a merciless approach in re-evaluating these theses, and unfortunately there isn't even a limitation-period after which given titles would be incontestable, and hence what appears to be the current obsession with titles in Germany. -- References :-) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-Theodor_zu_Guttenberg#Doctorate_plagiarism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-Theodor_zu_Guttenberg#Doct... - The "Guttenplag" wiki has a graph (and statistics): 94% of pages, 64% of lines have copies of foreign text without attribution: http://de.guttenplag.wikia.com/wiki/GuttenPlag_Wiki http://de.guttenplag.wikia.com/wiki/GuttenPlag_Wiki - This side shows pages in red that contain foreign material without attribution: http://schavanplag.wordpress.com/ http://schavanplag.wordpress.com/

nagrom 14y ago
My own feeling is that Germans guard quite strongly their societal and cultural goods; advanced degrees are a status indicator and it's not a surprise that incorrectly-gained degrees cause outrage to me. Perceived pollution in the shared consciousness inevitably causes punishment and expulsion. Other ways in which Germans guard their societal structure: -- highly regulated Sunday opening hours, even in big cities, ostensibly to protect low status workers. -- strong rules regarding jay walking; it's the only country where other pedestrians got upset with me for crossing the street incorrectly. -- strict adherence to rules and procedures in aspects of life that most cultures don't care about (clear your sidewalk of snow and ride your bicycle only on the correct side of the sidewalk, for example). -- strict adherence to a close family model that promotes appropriate education, shared meals and shared community endeavours. All these things make up a strong societal structure (if a little inflexible). I believe that there is a national desire for a straightforward, trustworthy communal structure. The 'obsession with titles' is simply a facet of the desire for a strong shared community which can act as a basis for a productive society. If people assume titles that they do not deserve then they reduce the quality of societal markers, make communal life more difficult and thus reduce productivity and progress. Add that to the somewhat natural tendency to tear apart any person of previously high societal status, and you have the current climate of Germans checking all advanced degrees (and to an extent, the British checking all the expenses claims of their own politicians).
- david_b 14y ago
  -- strict adherence to rules and procedures in aspects of life that most cultures don't care about (clear your sidewalk of snow and ride your bicycle only on the correct side of the sidewalk, for example). Not very good examples: --When someone falls in front of your house it is your responsibility (not an 'act of god' as it says in english law) - you can get sued for that. --As an adult you can't ride on the sidewalks - if you want to, that particular piece of sidewalk has to be marked as a bicycle path (which makes sense considering the high difference in speed between pedestrians and cyclists). In reality nobody cares about bicycle paths so you get an obstacle course of trash cans, cars (and their doors) and pedestrians...

by cnvogel 14y ago

nagrom 14y ago

My own feeling is that Germans guard quite strongly their societal and cultural goods; advanced degrees are a status indicator and it's not a surprise that incorrectly-gained degrees cause outrage to me. Perceived pollution in the shared consciousness inevitably causes punishment and expulsion. Other ways in which Germans guard their societal structure: -- highly regulated Sunday opening hours, even in big cities, ostensibly to protect low status workers. -- strong rules regarding jay walking; it's the only country where other pedestrians got upset with me for crossing the street incorrectly. -- strict adherence to rules and procedures in aspects of life that most cultures don't care about (clear your sidewalk of snow and ride your bicycle only on the correct side of the sidewalk, for example). -- strict adherence to a close family model that promotes appropriate education, shared meals and shared community endeavours. All these things make up a strong societal structure (if a little inflexible). I believe that there is a national desire for a straightforward, trustworthy communal structure. The 'obsession with titles' is simply a facet of the desire for a strong shared community which can act as a basis for a productive society. If people assume titles that they do not deserve then they reduce the quality of societal markers, make communal life more difficult and thus reduce productivity and progress. Add that to the somewhat natural tendency to tear apart any person of previously high societal status, and you have the current climate of Germans checking all advanced degrees (and to an extent, the British checking all the expenses claims of their own politicians).

david_b 14y ago
-- strict adherence to rules and procedures in aspects of life that most cultures don't care about (clear your sidewalk of snow and ride your bicycle only on the correct side of the sidewalk, for example). Not very good examples: --When someone falls in front of your house it is your responsibility (not an 'act of god' as it says in english law) - you can get sued for that. --As an adult you can't ride on the sidewalks - if you want to, that particular piece of sidewalk has to be marked as a bicycle path (which makes sense considering the high difference in speed between pedestrians and cyclists). In reality nobody cares about bicycle paths so you get an obstacle course of trash cans, cars (and their doors) and pedestrians...