4 ms·

The German hierarchy in academia is unbelievable. Few years back I moved from a federal lab in California to a state lab in Germany. I felt abashed at the extra

by pilooch 14y ago

The German hierarchy in academia is unbelievable. Few years back I moved from a federal lab in California to a state lab in Germany. I felt abashed at the extravagant praise of the head professor there. Also, the Prof. Dr. thing on business cards used to make me laugh, until I could grasp the whole system, and how detrimental it was for students (high pressure, never ending hierarchy, blind worship, ...).

raphman 14y ago
This hugely depends on the field of research and the individual research groups. Medicine is traditionally very hierarchical - mathematics or computer science not so. Could you elaborate on the detrimental effects?
- pilooch 14y ago
  sure, I refer to computer science btw. Detrimental effects that I could witness: - Prof. are secured in their large offices, hard to get in touch with. This leads to useless work or idle students, waiting for feedback, or picking up the wrong problem, solution or conference. - Full dependency on the Prof (e.g. for funding, to get a position, ...) - Students don't voice their concern much, as they need Prof. support. Don't get me wrong, overall, the system works, and the same observations could be made elsewhere as well (e.g. France, US, ...). Although I'd say the magnitude differs. With colleagues, we used to make this joke that a 'deadline' in the US would always be slowly pushed back until the project can be stamped as a success (best for everyone, motivates teams, etc...) whereas in Germany the deadline is so deadly that the team hits the wall and leaves blood strains on it, until the next deadline comes up :)
  - PeterisP 14y ago
    Well, the current funding systems in many countries naturally result in Prof's being unaccessible, and it has nothing to do with the offices. A well respected researcher (at the time working in Germany IIRC) told me "Professor's here don't have time to write research papers, they write grant proposals".

by pilooch 14y ago

raphman 14y ago

This hugely depends on the field of research and the individual research groups. Medicine is traditionally very hierarchical - mathematics or computer science not so. Could you elaborate on the detrimental effects?

pilooch 14y ago
sure, I refer to computer science btw. Detrimental effects that I could witness: - Prof. are secured in their large offices, hard to get in touch with. This leads to useless work or idle students, waiting for feedback, or picking up the wrong problem, solution or conference. - Full dependency on the Prof (e.g. for funding, to get a position, ...) - Students don't voice their concern much, as they need Prof. support. Don't get me wrong, overall, the system works, and the same observations could be made elsewhere as well (e.g. France, US, ...). Although I'd say the magnitude differs. With colleagues, we used to make this joke that a 'deadline' in the US would always be slowly pushed back until the project can be stamped as a success (best for everyone, motivates teams, etc...) whereas in Germany the deadline is so deadly that the team hits the wall and leaves blood strains on it, until the next deadline comes up :)
- PeterisP 14y ago
  Well, the current funding systems in many countries naturally result in Prof's being unaccessible, and it has nothing to do with the offices. A well respected researcher (at the time working in Germany IIRC) told me "Professor's here don't have time to write research papers, they write grant proposals".