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I wonder where the TSA VIPR teams land on that axis. As I understand it, they can be comprised of actual law enforcement personnel, including federal. But don

by roc 14y ago

I wonder where the TSA VIPR teams land on that axis. As I understand it, they can be comprised of actual law enforcement personnel, including federal. But don't necessarily. And even if a VIPR team included federal law enforcement personnel, it's not clear that they're necessarily acting with federal law enforcement authority. As if the TSA wasn't a confusing-enough bureaucratic monstrosity.

neurotech1 14y ago
Not sure.. but my comment was referring to TSA Screeners, which despite labels to the contrary are not federal agents or (sworn) federal officers. My guess (IANAL etc) they can be refused permission to search a private aircraft without probable cause or invitation by the Captain, same deal for any federal agent.
- roc 14y ago
  Right. But screeners can also be on VIPR teams. And as the VIPR program falls under the TSA's law enforcement office, it seems an open question whether random TSA gate goons gain federal law enforcement authority in those situations. The old rules are simply not something I'd be confident applies. In the trivial case, sure, a gate agent isn't a federal officer. But if a TSA agent were to appear at a private aircraft, that would be out of the ordinary. And once you start talking about out-of-the-ordinary set-ups, it's worth noting that even a random TSA gate rapist may have out-of-the-ordinary legal authority in some situations. To say nothing of what law enforcement officers may be operating under the TSA's purview in said out-of-the-ordinary set-ups.
  - neurotech1 14y ago
    I think your mistaken. The TSA personnel don't get privileges just because their part of some "law enforcement office", only the sworn "Federal Agents" in the team have the actual privileges. I know an attorney who flies their own jet, and if the TSA "agents" are doing something "out-of-the-ordinary", that is the time when there is a "badge check". I think this is a moot point, as what VIPR teams are typically for securing public transportation or public events, neither of which is a private jet. Air Marshals, although actual federal agents, don't typically fly on private jets unless under Space-A (invited) privileges.
    - roc 14y ago
      I'm wondering aloud here. I quite specifically don't know how it would go down. I'm just saying that it doesn't seem clear beyond the trivial case -- gate agent and private plane -- and that doesn't seem to happen anyway. As to what VIPR teams do, a small airport is a VIP away from all sorts of federal officers asking all sorts of questions, private planes or not.

by roc 14y ago

neurotech1 14y ago

Not sure.. but my comment was referring to TSA Screeners, which despite labels to the contrary are not federal agents or (sworn) federal officers. My guess (IANAL etc) they can be refused permission to search a private aircraft without probable cause or invitation by the Captain, same deal for any federal agent.

roc 14y ago
Right. But screeners can also be on VIPR teams. And as the VIPR program falls under the TSA's law enforcement office, it seems an open question whether random TSA gate goons gain federal law enforcement authority in those situations. The old rules are simply not something I'd be confident applies. In the trivial case, sure, a gate agent isn't a federal officer. But if a TSA agent were to appear at a private aircraft, that would be out of the ordinary. And once you start talking about out-of-the-ordinary set-ups, it's worth noting that even a random TSA gate rapist may have out-of-the-ordinary legal authority in some situations. To say nothing of what law enforcement officers may be operating under the TSA's purview in said out-of-the-ordinary set-ups.
- neurotech1 14y ago
  I think your mistaken. The TSA personnel don't get privileges just because their part of some "law enforcement office", only the sworn "Federal Agents" in the team have the actual privileges. I know an attorney who flies their own jet, and if the TSA "agents" are doing something "out-of-the-ordinary", that is the time when there is a "badge check". I think this is a moot point, as what VIPR teams are typically for securing public transportation or public events, neither of which is a private jet. Air Marshals, although actual federal agents, don't typically fly on private jets unless under Space-A (invited) privileges.
  - roc 14y ago
    I'm wondering aloud here. I quite specifically don't know how it would go down. I'm just saying that it doesn't seem clear beyond the trivial case -- gate agent and private plane -- and that doesn't seem to happen anyway. As to what VIPR teams do, a small airport is a VIP away from all sorts of federal officers asking all sorts of questions, private planes or not.