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How do you conclude "Facebook users are on the whole technologically illiterate and conservative"? You don't even qualify it with a "probably". Facebook have

How do you conclude "Facebook users are on the whole technologically illiterate and conservative"? You don't even qualify it with a "probably". Facebook have really messed up with the latest change. People were confused by the last release, but happy overall. This is quite a different reaction. I never heard of anyone disliking Facebook video by the way. What did they dislike about it? Don't you mostly use Myspace anyway?

unalone 18y ago
How do you conclude "Facebook users are on the whole technologically illiterate and conservative"? You don't even qualify it with a "probably". I don't qualify things that are obviously opinion. In any case, I'm right about this. Most Facebook users don't care for technology, and they want things to work the same tomorrow as they do today. They don't like change, even when it's for the better in the long run. Facebook have really messed up with the latest change. People were confused by the last release, but happy overall. This is quite a different reaction. Then you weren't around for the last redesign, which people hated. Search for "old Facebook" and you'll see groups that protest every single Facebook that ever launched since the advent of groups. I never heard of anyone disliking Facebook video by the way. What did they dislike about it? Don't you mostly use Myspace anyway? Me personally? Have you not seen my weekly pro-Facebook talks? I'm an enormous Facebook fan. My MySpace account is deleted, I think. I don't remember if I bothered. In the first few weeks of Facebook video, people thought it was stupid and wasteful and hated that their friends didn't have it yet. Two months later it was huge.
- timcederman 18y ago
  I absolutely was around for the previous redesign, saw all the backlash of people complaining about being unable to find stuff, but after a day or two, most people seemed to prefer it. That is expected behaviour with most radical site redesigns and something I've seen many times for other sites. As I said, this reaction is quite different, and it's because the new design is objectively pretty awful. By the way, it really is quite irritating trying to have a conversation with you, and having you state "obvious opinions" as fact ("Then you weren't around for the last redesign, which people hated."). I don't recall any such reactions to Facebook Video, although perhaps it was localized. The only two previous widely reported upsets for users have been the addition of newsfeeds and the terms of service debacle (and yes, I was around for both). The last redesign seemed to upset application developers and advertisers more than users.
  - unalone 18y ago
    The new design is not objectively awful. Already I'd say about half the people I'm friends with are big fans of it. It's more condensed and more efficient. Don't wave about words like "objective" unless you're prepared to use them correctly. This site's been in place for less than a week, and it was rolled out day by day. People's reactions are typical. Last time the backlast lasted for 2-3 weeks: we haven't seen a full 7 days yet. By the way, it really is quite irritating trying to have a conversation with you, and having you state "obvious opinions" as fact ("Then you weren't around for the last redesign, which people hated."). How else should I put it? I've used Facebook for 3 years, and every redesign sees the exact same 2-3 week pattern of people hating the redesign, people forming around groups to complain, and then the dislike subsiding. A quick search reveals: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b5db127f5e0&gid=21195574231 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b... http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b5db127f5e0&gid=2208773306 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b... http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b5db127f5e0&gid=26482124873 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b... http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b5db127f5e0&gid=27596033753 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b... http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b5db127f5e0&gid=26621651236 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b... http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b5db127f5e0&gid=24786297975 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b... http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b5db127f5e0&gid=2298898409 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b... The funny thing is that a lot of these websites get re-used. Some of these groups keep getting new users but are two years old. So you know what? When you go about saying things like "objectively worse" and talking about a supposed level of vast complaint that doesn't actually exist, the first reaction I'll have is to wonder if you've been paying attention for the last three years. I'm sorry if that irritates you, but my initial reaction is to give you the benefit of the doubt. I don't want to assume that you're saying stuff when you should know better, so I assume instead that perhaps you're just new to Facebook.
    - timcederman 18y ago
      It is objectively awful. By objectively awful I mean that as a designer, I can see plenty of flaws in the design which irk people beyond the usual dislike for change. Anyway, there's no point arguing further. You have your view, I have mine. We are the Paul Boutin and Owen Thomas of Hacker News. http://valleywag.gawker.com/5172407/what-was-mark-zuckerberg-smoking-when-he-redesigned-facebook http://valleywag.gawker.com/5172407/what-was-mark-zuckerberg... I will ask you to reconsider your stereotype of users though. Go run some user studies (or at least observe them) before being so quick to make all-encompassing stereotypes.

unalone 18y ago

How do you conclude "Facebook users are on the whole technologically illiterate and conservative"? You don't even qualify it with a "probably". I don't qualify things that are obviously opinion. In any case, I'm right about this. Most Facebook users don't care for technology, and they want things to work the same tomorrow as they do today. They don't like change, even when it's for the better in the long run. Facebook have really messed up with the latest change. People were confused by the last release, but happy overall. This is quite a different reaction. Then you weren't around for the last redesign, which people hated. Search for "old Facebook" and you'll see groups that protest every single Facebook that ever launched since the advent of groups. I never heard of anyone disliking Facebook video by the way. What did they dislike about it? Don't you mostly use Myspace anyway? Me personally? Have you not seen my weekly pro-Facebook talks? I'm an enormous Facebook fan. My MySpace account is deleted, I think. I don't remember if I bothered. In the first few weeks of Facebook video, people thought it was stupid and wasteful and hated that their friends didn't have it yet. Two months later it was huge.

timcederman 18y ago
I absolutely was around for the previous redesign, saw all the backlash of people complaining about being unable to find stuff, but after a day or two, most people seemed to prefer it. That is expected behaviour with most radical site redesigns and something I've seen many times for other sites. As I said, this reaction is quite different, and it's because the new design is objectively pretty awful. By the way, it really is quite irritating trying to have a conversation with you, and having you state "obvious opinions" as fact ("Then you weren't around for the last redesign, which people hated."). I don't recall any such reactions to Facebook Video, although perhaps it was localized. The only two previous widely reported upsets for users have been the addition of newsfeeds and the terms of service debacle (and yes, I was around for both). The last redesign seemed to upset application developers and advertisers more than users.
- unalone 18y ago
  The new design is not objectively awful. Already I'd say about half the people I'm friends with are big fans of it. It's more condensed and more efficient. Don't wave about words like "objective" unless you're prepared to use them correctly. This site's been in place for less than a week, and it was rolled out day by day. People's reactions are typical. Last time the backlast lasted for 2-3 weeks: we haven't seen a full 7 days yet. By the way, it really is quite irritating trying to have a conversation with you, and having you state "obvious opinions" as fact ("Then you weren't around for the last redesign, which people hated."). How else should I put it? I've used Facebook for 3 years, and every redesign sees the exact same 2-3 week pattern of people hating the redesign, people forming around groups to complain, and then the dislike subsiding. A quick search reveals: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b5db127f5e0&gid=21195574231 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b... http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b5db127f5e0&gid=2208773306 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b... http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b5db127f5e0&gid=26482124873 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b... http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b5db127f5e0&gid=27596033753 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b... http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b5db127f5e0&gid=26621651236 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b... http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b5db127f5e0&gid=24786297975 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b... http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b5db127f5e0&gid=2298898409 http://www.facebook.com/group.php?sid=2b0eb8d21715f336ed2e2b... The funny thing is that a lot of these websites get re-used. Some of these groups keep getting new users but are two years old. So you know what? When you go about saying things like "objectively worse" and talking about a supposed level of vast complaint that doesn't actually exist, the first reaction I'll have is to wonder if you've been paying attention for the last three years. I'm sorry if that irritates you, but my initial reaction is to give you the benefit of the doubt. I don't want to assume that you're saying stuff when you should know better, so I assume instead that perhaps you're just new to Facebook.
  - timcederman 18y ago
    It is objectively awful. By objectively awful I mean that as a designer, I can see plenty of flaws in the design which irk people beyond the usual dislike for change. Anyway, there's no point arguing further. You have your view, I have mine. We are the Paul Boutin and Owen Thomas of Hacker News. http://valleywag.gawker.com/5172407/what-was-mark-zuckerberg-smoking-when-he-redesigned-facebook http://valleywag.gawker.com/5172407/what-was-mark-zuckerberg... I will ask you to reconsider your stereotype of users though. Go run some user studies (or at least observe them) before being so quick to make all-encompassing stereotypes.