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It's things like this that mean that I won't go back to America. I love Americans, and there's a great deal of the US I'd love to see but it's just not going to

by iuguy 14y ago

It's things like this that mean that I won't go back to America. I love Americans, and there's a great deal of the US I'd love to see but it's just not going to happen while stuff like this goes on.

tptacek 14y ago
My most vivid experience of traveling in Europe in 2000 was of having my bags searched on a train midway between Zurich to Prague. Not as a condition of getting on the train, but 30 minutes out from the last station we'd stopped at. Not on any individualized suspicion, but as one of several passengers to receive the same treatment. Not in order to protect the safety of passengers, but (evidently) as part of a drug interdiction program. Beware the grass-is-greener trap. You may be right: it may be that there are fewer circumstances in which your electronics will be searched in Europe than in the US. But by and large European law operates under a regime that values communitarian values more highly than individual ones. You can certainly be searched without a warrant all throughout Europe.
- martinced 14y ago
  "You can certainly be searched without a warrant all throughout Europe." Never happened to me but I do believe you. However what did happen though is that a vehicle of mine equipped with a GPS got stolen in Europe and despite me telling the cops exactly behind which garage door the vehicle was located, they refused to open the garage without a warrant. Now so many days have passed by that it's likely that the thieves have moved the vehicle and that I'll never see it again. "Police and thieves, in the street... Fighting the nation with their guns and ammunition" I cannot say that I admire your 100% belief in the state that you've displayed in this thread. But you're probably right: Europe sucks and the U.S. is the greatest place to live ever and certainly nothing is going wrong in the U.S. right now (zeppelin over Washington DC, en masse murdering using drones, illegal detention, justified torture, etc.). I've got a bridge decorated with pink unicorn running in fairyland to sell you.
  - rdouble 14y ago
    I'm not sure where you got that second quote. It's nowhere else in the thread, the article, or any of tptacek's comments on any other recent threads.
    - m0nastic 14y ago
      It's lyrics from a Clash song (technically a reggae song they covered, but most people associate it with them). It's about the police misusing their power.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Do the worm on Acropolis. Slam dance cosmopolis. Enlighten the populace. It's one of HN's most charming quirks that a reluctance to subscribe to conspiracy theories makes one a stalwart supporter of the state.
- iuguy 14y ago
  > Beware the grass-is-greener trap. Please don't confuse my views for a grass-is-greener view. I live in one of the most expansive surveillance states in the world (the UK) and generally what happens in the US tends to come over here eventually. However, I do have the option to travel or not to travel to the US, and as long as the US Government treats visitors and it's own citizens in this way, I choose not to. For what it's worth, I also choose not to go to Israel and some other countries for a whole load of other reasons. I was simply stating my view on the USA's zany policies. > You can certainly be searched without a warrant all throughout Europe. I can't speak for all of Europe but we certainly have Section 44 (of the Terrorism Act 2000) Stop and Search in the UK which has been routinely abused.

by iuguy 14y ago

It's things like this that mean that I won't go back to America. I love Americans, and there's a great deal of the US I'd love to see but it's just not going to happen while stuff like this goes on.

tptacek 14y ago

My most vivid experience of traveling in Europe in 2000 was of having my bags searched on a train midway between Zurich to Prague. Not as a condition of getting on the train, but 30 minutes out from the last station we'd stopped at. Not on any individualized suspicion, but as one of several passengers to receive the same treatment. Not in order to protect the safety of passengers, but (evidently) as part of a drug interdiction program. Beware the grass-is-greener trap. You may be right: it may be that there are fewer circumstances in which your electronics will be searched in Europe than in the US. But by and large European law operates under a regime that values communitarian values more highly than individual ones. You can certainly be searched without a warrant all throughout Europe.

martinced 14y ago
"You can certainly be searched without a warrant all throughout Europe." Never happened to me but I do believe you. However what did happen though is that a vehicle of mine equipped with a GPS got stolen in Europe and despite me telling the cops exactly behind which garage door the vehicle was located, they refused to open the garage without a warrant. Now so many days have passed by that it's likely that the thieves have moved the vehicle and that I'll never see it again. "Police and thieves, in the street... Fighting the nation with their guns and ammunition" I cannot say that I admire your 100% belief in the state that you've displayed in this thread. But you're probably right: Europe sucks and the U.S. is the greatest place to live ever and certainly nothing is going wrong in the U.S. right now (zeppelin over Washington DC, en masse murdering using drones, illegal detention, justified torture, etc.). I've got a bridge decorated with pink unicorn running in fairyland to sell you.
- rdouble 14y ago
  I'm not sure where you got that second quote. It's nowhere else in the thread, the article, or any of tptacek's comments on any other recent threads.
  - m0nastic 14y ago
    It's lyrics from a Clash song (technically a reggae song they covered, but most people associate it with them). It's about the police misusing their power.
- tptacek 14y ago
  Do the worm on Acropolis. Slam dance cosmopolis. Enlighten the populace. It's one of HN's most charming quirks that a reluctance to subscribe to conspiracy theories makes one a stalwart supporter of the state.
iuguy 14y ago
> Beware the grass-is-greener trap. Please don't confuse my views for a grass-is-greener view. I live in one of the most expansive surveillance states in the world (the UK) and generally what happens in the US tends to come over here eventually. However, I do have the option to travel or not to travel to the US, and as long as the US Government treats visitors and it's own citizens in this way, I choose not to. For what it's worth, I also choose not to go to Israel and some other countries for a whole load of other reasons. I was simply stating my view on the USA's zany policies. > You can certainly be searched without a warrant all throughout Europe. I can't speak for all of Europe but we certainly have Section 44 (of the Terrorism Act 2000) Stop and Search in the UK which has been routinely abused.