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Concur with javajosh's recommendation to find a California/USA-based lawyer for help. Advice from semi-anonymous strangers in internet forums is worth what you

by gojomo 14y ago

Concur with javajosh's recommendation to find a California/USA-based lawyer for help. Advice from semi-anonymous strangers in internet forums is worth what you pay for it. Generally, in the search for a lawyer, you get to talk to many (without charge) for 15-45 minutes each. You may be surprised how widely their estimations of the issues vary -- the law is the law, right? -- but you'll learn something from each conversation, and perhaps find someone you trust with your concerns. Also, legal confidentiality means that even if you've messed up on some tax/immigration/work-authorization/business things, talking with them honestly doesn't mean you've made any admissions that get back to the authorities (unless and until with their advice you decide that's the best course). If a student in the US, your educational institution may also have a legal aid clinic. You can probably get an 'ITIN', the equivalent to a Social Security Number for non-domestic individuals/entities who need an SSN-like number for tax/financial reporting purposes. See... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Taxpayer_Identification_Number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Taxpayer_Identificat... ...and the related IRS pages. And again, just getting the number isn't admitting to anything or any tax liability. However, it then will be used by financial institutions (like PayPal) to maintain their internal and government-required reporting requirements. Separate from just tax issues, amounts in the tens-of-thousands (and sometimes less) are subject to reporting to control money-laundering from large-scale illegal activities.

bravura 14y ago
legal confidentiality means... IANAL, but I don't believe you have attorney-client privilege until you formally hire the lawyer. So if you are calling ten lawyers and getting advice, there is no guarantee of privilege.
- sswaner 14y ago
  According to the lawyer across the table, privilege starts with the first conversation.
  - edouard1234567 14y ago
    Interesting BUT what if the lawyer has a conflict of interest and learns that during the initial conversation before committing to representing you. Does that mean he/she cannot use the information you provided to defend the interest he currently represents assuming he refused to represent you?
    - mattzito 14y ago
      Yes. The lawyer is obligated to keep that information confidential, unless you explicity release confidentiality. As soon as the lawyer realizes there's a conflict, which will often be fairly obvious, they're supposed to stop and explain the situation to whatever degree appropriate.
  - smartwater 14y ago
    In Massachusetts it starts when you pay any amount of money.
    - gojomo 14y ago
      Do you have a reference? This page of the Massachusetts Bar, like other more general discussions, suggests it also applies for any 'potential' or 'prospective' client: http://www.massbar.org/publications/massachusetts-law-review/2003/v87-n4/the-attorney-client-privilege-in http://www.massbar.org/publications/massachusetts-law-review...
  - cryofan 14y ago
    agreed. This is blackletter law and is taught early on in law school
- graeme 14y ago
  Pretty sure that's not correct. It would destroy the potential for candid consultations to determine whether a case should be taken. From the attorney's perspective, the inability to guarantee privilege might cause them to incorrectly advise a client on their potential to help.
  - dhimes 14y ago
    Yes. I remember OJ Simpson's first lawyer refused the case. Didn't talk about the conversation and wasn't compelled to. But it was clear he refused the case because of the conversation.
downandout 14y ago
Unfortunately, while a lawyer can certainly make a request to PayPal, their user agreements are loud and clear on the issue of freezing accounts. Essentially, you agree that they can close your account and hold your funds for any reason or no reason at all. The freeze can last for up to 180 days from the date of your last chargeback, or from the date they froze the account, whichever is later. As you can see, they apply this policy liberally and always to their benefit. TBH, you have already played your best card by getting this to the front page of Hacker News. You may well get your money released relatively soon because someone at PP has or will soon see this. It's sad that this is what it takes just to make them be honest, but that is what you get when you deal with PayPal. Good luck, and never use Paypal again. Use Bitcoins or Stripe.
- einhverfr 14y ago
  > Unfortunately, while a lawyer can certainly make a request to PayPal, their user agreements are loud and clear on the issue of freezing accounts. Essentially, you agree that they can close your account and hold your funds for any reason or no reason at all. Every lawyer I have ever talked to formally or informally have said such things may be challengeable in court. That's why you want to talk to a lawyer. > The freeze can last for up to 180 days from the date of your last chargeback, or from the date they froze the account, whichever is later. Again quite true. If it is only 180 days though, that's one thing, but only to the point they are reasonable (again talk to a lawyer). If they hold onto it indefinitely that is theft. > Good luck, and never use Paypal again. Use Bitcoins or Stripe. Yep. Use anything else.
  - chris_wot 14y ago
    >> Unfortunately, while a lawyer can certainly make a request to PayPal, their user agreements are loud and clear on the issue of freezing accounts. Essentially, you agree that they can close your account and hold your funds for any reason or no reason at all. > Every lawyer I have ever talked to formally or informally have said such things may be challengeable in court. That's why you want to talk to a lawyer. It's because it's what's called an unenforceable contract [1], because if they close the account for any reason, that reason could be because you are selling some goods, but PayPal doesn't like it. A court shouldn't uphold that, and I'd love to see PayPal be brought to task by someone with enough money, time and anger that they pursue a lawsuit to it's logical conclusion. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unenforceable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unenforceable
mykl 14y ago
I second this. Look here: www.irs.gov/Individuals/General-ITIN-Information Also, you can use this in dealing with US banks. I have not done this with PayPal but have done it for US banking. It took a few weeks. to get the number.

by gojomo 14y ago

bravura 14y ago

legal confidentiality means... IANAL, but I don't believe you have attorney-client privilege until you formally hire the lawyer. So if you are calling ten lawyers and getting advice, there is no guarantee of privilege.

sswaner 14y ago
According to the lawyer across the table, privilege starts with the first conversation.
- edouard1234567 14y ago
  Interesting BUT what if the lawyer has a conflict of interest and learns that during the initial conversation before committing to representing you. Does that mean he/she cannot use the information you provided to defend the interest he currently represents assuming he refused to represent you?
  - mattzito 14y ago
    Yes. The lawyer is obligated to keep that information confidential, unless you explicity release confidentiality. As soon as the lawyer realizes there's a conflict, which will often be fairly obvious, they're supposed to stop and explain the situation to whatever degree appropriate.
- smartwater 14y ago
  In Massachusetts it starts when you pay any amount of money.
  - gojomo 14y ago
    Do you have a reference? This page of the Massachusetts Bar, like other more general discussions, suggests it also applies for any 'potential' or 'prospective' client: http://www.massbar.org/publications/massachusetts-law-review/2003/v87-n4/the-attorney-client-privilege-in http://www.massbar.org/publications/massachusetts-law-review...
- cryofan 14y ago
  agreed. This is blackletter law and is taught early on in law school
graeme 14y ago
Pretty sure that's not correct. It would destroy the potential for candid consultations to determine whether a case should be taken. From the attorney's perspective, the inability to guarantee privilege might cause them to incorrectly advise a client on their potential to help.
- dhimes 14y ago
  Yes. I remember OJ Simpson's first lawyer refused the case. Didn't talk about the conversation and wasn't compelled to. But it was clear he refused the case because of the conversation.

downandout 14y ago

Unfortunately, while a lawyer can certainly make a request to PayPal, their user agreements are loud and clear on the issue of freezing accounts. Essentially, you agree that they can close your account and hold your funds for any reason or no reason at all. The freeze can last for up to 180 days from the date of your last chargeback, or from the date they froze the account, whichever is later. As you can see, they apply this policy liberally and always to their benefit. TBH, you have already played your best card by getting this to the front page of Hacker News. You may well get your money released relatively soon because someone at PP has or will soon see this. It's sad that this is what it takes just to make them be honest, but that is what you get when you deal with PayPal. Good luck, and never use Paypal again. Use Bitcoins or Stripe.

einhverfr 14y ago
> Unfortunately, while a lawyer can certainly make a request to PayPal, their user agreements are loud and clear on the issue of freezing accounts. Essentially, you agree that they can close your account and hold your funds for any reason or no reason at all. Every lawyer I have ever talked to formally or informally have said such things may be challengeable in court. That's why you want to talk to a lawyer. > The freeze can last for up to 180 days from the date of your last chargeback, or from the date they froze the account, whichever is later. Again quite true. If it is only 180 days though, that's one thing, but only to the point they are reasonable (again talk to a lawyer). If they hold onto it indefinitely that is theft. > Good luck, and never use Paypal again. Use Bitcoins or Stripe. Yep. Use anything else.
- chris_wot 14y ago
  >> Unfortunately, while a lawyer can certainly make a request to PayPal, their user agreements are loud and clear on the issue of freezing accounts. Essentially, you agree that they can close your account and hold your funds for any reason or no reason at all. > Every lawyer I have ever talked to formally or informally have said such things may be challengeable in court. That's why you want to talk to a lawyer. It's because it's what's called an unenforceable contract [1], because if they close the account for any reason, that reason could be because you are selling some goods, but PayPal doesn't like it. A court shouldn't uphold that, and I'd love to see PayPal be brought to task by someone with enough money, time and anger that they pursue a lawsuit to it's logical conclusion. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unenforceable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unenforceable

mykl 14y ago

I second this. Look here: www.irs.gov/Individuals/General-ITIN-Information Also, you can use this in dealing with US banks. I have not done this with PayPal but have done it for US banking. It took a few weeks. to get the number.