7 ms·

I'm really confused right now. Over half of that money 18.5 billion, was donated to the "male circumcision consortium" so they can circumcise people in Africa.

by phaus 14y ago

I'm really confused right now. Over half of that money 18.5 billion, was donated to the "male circumcision consortium" so they can circumcise people in Africa. Is that really such an important issue that it became the recipient of one of the largest donations in the history of the world? I'm certain that I must be missing something.

bahman2000 14y ago
aids
- phaus 14y ago
  Thanks. I Learned something new today. I had no idea that male circumcision reduces the chances of contracting HIV, but it does. http://www.engenderhealth.org/our-work/major-projects/male-circumcision.php http://www.engenderhealth.org/our-work/major-projects/male-c...
andymoe 14y ago
Easy win for reducing the spread of STDs (AIDS) in a place where contraception is taboo for a lot of the population.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
ari_elle 14y ago
I am also astonished by that number, but circumcision certainly seems to be an important way of fighting HIV. "There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%."[1] "Evidence among heterosexual men in sub-Saharan Africa shows a decreased risk of between 38 percent and 66 percent over two years"[2] But Circumcision Rates in Africa are relatively high anyways, due to the population's religious background.[3] Quote of New York Times Article: [4] "Among those are 14 studies that provide what the experts characterize as “fair” evidence that circumcision in adulthood protects men from H.I.V. transmission from a female partner, cutting infection rates by 40 to 60 percent. Three of the studies were large randomized controlled trials of the kind considered the gold standard in medicine, but they were carried out in Africa, where H.I.V. — the virus the causes AIDS — is spread primarily among heterosexuals. " "Other studies have linked male circumcision to lower rates of infection with human papillomavirus and herpes simplex Type 2." " The procedure has long been recognized to lower urinary tract infections early in life and reduce the incidence of penile cancer." So i guess it just all adds up in a way. That being said, the number of over 18 billion Dollars (according to the article) being spent on this issue still astonishes me... [1] http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/ http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Sexually_transmitted_diseases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Sexually_transmit... [3] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Global_Map_of_Male_Circumcision_Prevalence_at_Country_Level.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Global_M... [4] https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/science/benefits-of-circumcision-outweigh-risks-pediatric-group-says.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/science/benefits-of-circu...
- recoiledsnake 14y ago
  The coloring on the Wikipedia picture is horrible and is essentially the equivalent of this optical illusion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gray_square_illusion.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gray_square_illusion.png
- dimitar 14y ago
  Is there a chance this is a case of correlation studies reported as causation by the media? I find it unconvincing that it might protect against HIV. Personal incredulity and the endorsing of the WHO aside, how does that work?
  - streptomycin 14y ago
    This should get you started: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=circumcision+aids http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=circumcision+aids I'm not an expert on the field, but it does seem a bit controversial.
  - rhplus 14y ago
    The general theory is that circumcision causes a change in the membrane and "microbiomes" around that part of the penis. I still struggle, however, to believe that a truly controlled study could ever be conducted and I wonder if the money wouldn't be better spent just providing condoms and sexual education to these at risk groups. We already know that condoms are very, very good a reducing HIV transmission rates, plus they work for both partners (circumcision studies only show reduced transmission to men from women), and also consistent use can reduce the risk of cervical cancers, HPV and unwanted pregnancies. In a way, studies and campaigns that focus on circumcision are unethical if they don't also provide access to this highly effective device. But going back to the studies, the problem I have understanding them is that there is, as far as I'm aware, no way to perform a placebo circumcision. Any adult who has a circumcision is surely likely alter his behavior or perhaps take greater notice of the sexual education he received alongside the circumcision. Or, perhaps he may have the superhero effect, thinking he can have more unprotected sex? That's the part that makes it hard for me to believe that studies are controlled. And for those studies that look only at populations that perform infant circumcisions, it seems even more likely that differences in cultural, religious or social norms of each population would have just as much influence as the operation. If anyone has details on how these studies control for confounding factors like that, I'd be interested to hear.
beering 14y ago
A quick Google search turns up this page[1] that lists the donation as "18.5 million to establish the [MCC]". That figure would make much more sense compared to the other figures. [1] http://www.wellsphere.com/men-s-health-article/bill-gates-donation-for-circumcision/720699 http://www.wellsphere.com/men-s-health-article/bill-gates-do... Edit: Try this Google search. The real number is almost certainly 18.5 MILLION, which makes this table total up to about 18 billion dollars instead of 37 billion. It's amusing how people are jumping through hoops to force this 18.5 billion figure to make sense rather than looking for a citation. (But rest assured that lists assembled by Internet blogs are reliable sources of information.) I'm sure we'll start seeing this "fact" start turning up in research essays and other linkbait blogs. https://www.google.com/search?q=bill+gates+donation+male+circumcision+consortium&oq=bill+gates+donation+male+circumcision+consortium https://www.google.com/search?q=bill+gates+donation+male+cir...
- phaus 14y ago
  That makes more sense. For 18.5 billion, I wouldn't think there'd be a single person on the continent of Africa that wasn't circumsized.
  - rvkennedy 14y ago
    For 18.5 billion, I'd be surprised if they had anything left.
melling 14y ago
Seems kind of crazy. How much would it cost to cure AIDS or develop affordable treatments? He is treating many of the symptoms from which people suffer in the world. However, accelerating the advancement of science and medicine might be a better goal. There's probably lots of redundant medical research for example. Take some of the money and help fund a new era of open medical research.
- phantomb 14y ago
  Pretty sure he does that too through the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Quick look at the wiki page says that among many global health issues, the Foundation hands out hundreds of millions in grants for AIDS research on condition that findings be public. It's notably also involved in the development of Malaria vaccines like RTS,S, the first anti-parasitic vaccine in history, I believe.
vacri 14y ago
It's a typo, and their supporting link is borked. Try million instead of billion: http://www.wellsphere.com/men-s-health-article/bill-gates-donation-for-circumcision/720699 http://www.wellsphere.com/men-s-health-article/bill-gates-do...

by phaus 14y ago

bahman2000 14y ago

aids

phaus 14y ago
Thanks. I Learned something new today. I had no idea that male circumcision reduces the chances of contracting HIV, but it does. http://www.engenderhealth.org/our-work/major-projects/male-circumcision.php http://www.engenderhealth.org/our-work/major-projects/male-c...

andymoe 14y ago

Easy win for reducing the spread of STDs (AIDS) in a place where contraception is taboo for a lot of the population.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

ari_elle 14y ago

I am also astonished by that number, but circumcision certainly seems to be an important way of fighting HIV. "There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%."[1] "Evidence among heterosexual men in sub-Saharan Africa shows a decreased risk of between 38 percent and 66 percent over two years"[2] But Circumcision Rates in Africa are relatively high anyways, due to the population's religious background.[3] Quote of New York Times Article: [4] "Among those are 14 studies that provide what the experts characterize as “fair” evidence that circumcision in adulthood protects men from H.I.V. transmission from a female partner, cutting infection rates by 40 to 60 percent. Three of the studies were large randomized controlled trials of the kind considered the gold standard in medicine, but they were carried out in Africa, where H.I.V. — the virus the causes AIDS — is spread primarily among heterosexuals. " "Other studies have linked male circumcision to lower rates of infection with human papillomavirus and herpes simplex Type 2." " The procedure has long been recognized to lower urinary tract infections early in life and reduce the incidence of penile cancer." So i guess it just all adds up in a way. That being said, the number of over 18 billion Dollars (according to the article) being spent on this issue still astonishes me... [1] http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/ http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Sexually_transmitted_diseases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Sexually_transmit... [3] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Global_Map_of_Male_Circumcision_Prevalence_at_Country_Level.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Global_M... [4] https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/science/benefits-of-circumcision-outweigh-risks-pediatric-group-says.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/27/science/benefits-of-circu...

recoiledsnake 14y ago
The coloring on the Wikipedia picture is horrible and is essentially the equivalent of this optical illusion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gray_square_illusion.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gray_square_illusion.png
dimitar 14y ago
Is there a chance this is a case of correlation studies reported as causation by the media? I find it unconvincing that it might protect against HIV. Personal incredulity and the endorsing of the WHO aside, how does that work?
- streptomycin 14y ago
  This should get you started: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=circumcision+aids http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=circumcision+aids I'm not an expert on the field, but it does seem a bit controversial.
- rhplus 14y ago
  The general theory is that circumcision causes a change in the membrane and "microbiomes" around that part of the penis. I still struggle, however, to believe that a truly controlled study could ever be conducted and I wonder if the money wouldn't be better spent just providing condoms and sexual education to these at risk groups. We already know that condoms are very, very good a reducing HIV transmission rates, plus they work for both partners (circumcision studies only show reduced transmission to men from women), and also consistent use can reduce the risk of cervical cancers, HPV and unwanted pregnancies. In a way, studies and campaigns that focus on circumcision are unethical if they don't also provide access to this highly effective device. But going back to the studies, the problem I have understanding them is that there is, as far as I'm aware, no way to perform a placebo circumcision. Any adult who has a circumcision is surely likely alter his behavior or perhaps take greater notice of the sexual education he received alongside the circumcision. Or, perhaps he may have the superhero effect, thinking he can have more unprotected sex? That's the part that makes it hard for me to believe that studies are controlled. And for those studies that look only at populations that perform infant circumcisions, it seems even more likely that differences in cultural, religious or social norms of each population would have just as much influence as the operation. If anyone has details on how these studies control for confounding factors like that, I'd be interested to hear.

beering 14y ago

A quick Google search turns up this page[1] that lists the donation as "18.5 million to establish the [MCC]". That figure would make much more sense compared to the other figures. [1] http://www.wellsphere.com/men-s-health-article/bill-gates-donation-for-circumcision/720699 http://www.wellsphere.com/men-s-health-article/bill-gates-do... Edit: Try this Google search. The real number is almost certainly 18.5 MILLION, which makes this table total up to about 18 billion dollars instead of 37 billion. It's amusing how people are jumping through hoops to force this 18.5 billion figure to make sense rather than looking for a citation. (But rest assured that lists assembled by Internet blogs are reliable sources of information.) I'm sure we'll start seeing this "fact" start turning up in research essays and other linkbait blogs. https://www.google.com/search?q=bill+gates+donation+male+circumcision+consortium&oq=bill+gates+donation+male+circumcision+consortium https://www.google.com/search?q=bill+gates+donation+male+cir...

phaus 14y ago
That makes more sense. For 18.5 billion, I wouldn't think there'd be a single person on the continent of Africa that wasn't circumsized.
- rvkennedy 14y ago
  For 18.5 billion, I'd be surprised if they had anything left.

melling 14y ago

Seems kind of crazy. How much would it cost to cure AIDS or develop affordable treatments? He is treating many of the symptoms from which people suffer in the world. However, accelerating the advancement of science and medicine might be a better goal. There's probably lots of redundant medical research for example. Take some of the money and help fund a new era of open medical research.

phantomb 14y ago
Pretty sure he does that too through the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Quick look at the wiki page says that among many global health issues, the Foundation hands out hundreds of millions in grants for AIDS research on condition that findings be public. It's notably also involved in the development of Malaria vaccines like RTS,S, the first anti-parasitic vaccine in history, I believe.

vacri 14y ago

It's a typo, and their supporting link is borked. Try million instead of billion: http://www.wellsphere.com/men-s-health-article/bill-gates-donation-for-circumcision/720699 http://www.wellsphere.com/men-s-health-article/bill-gates-do...