9 ms·

When you say you're an international student, do you mean you're in the US on an F-1 visa? If yes, you might be in violation of your visa terms. If you have not

by sp_ 14y ago

When you say you're an international student, do you mean you're in the US on an F-1 visa? If yes, you might be in violation of your visa terms. If you have not researched this, please start reading at http://www.justanswer.com/immigration-law/330cd-holding-f-1-visa-sell-software.html http://www.justanswer.com/immigration-law/330cd-holding-f-1-...

blasten 14y ago
In this world, one must be born rich...
- djt 14y ago
  It makes it easier, but it could also be said that you should have checked the Terms and Services contract with Paypal.
  - blasten 14y ago
    I started my commercial project in Venezuela, but using a U.S. account.
javajosh 14y ago
Wow, that's just...mind-numbingly awful. If that's true, the Emmanuel just forfeits all that money? I suspect that a good lawyer will be able to recover most of it for him, especially since his presence in the US was not material to the earning of that income.
- packetslave 14y ago
  IANAL (which is why the OP should definitely talk to one). If the work that generated the income was done while he was physically in the US, then the immigration folks will definitely have an opinion on if it was legal under his visa terms. This may or may not have an impact on any potential legal remedies that are available wrt Paypal.
  - Lewisham 14y ago
    Yeah, as someone who has held an F1 in the past, the US authorities take a very dim view of getting income while you are here without authorization. I think actually committing misdemeanor crime is of less consequence to your legal status than taking money. We were warned about it very specifically. I heard of someone who was deported because he was painting fences for some disposable income. My guess is that the OP actually needs an immigration lawyer, not a civil claims lawyer (or whatever they are called). It's a sticky situation, and likely depends on whether the money was being posted to a PayPal account with a US or Venezuelan address/bank account, and whether he actually performed any work on turn.js while in the US. My guess is that if PayPal are asking for the SSN, he tied it to the USA, which is going to be a problem.
  - anigbrowl 14y ago
    IANAL either, but there's no law against making income, there's a alw against accepting employment. If OP can show he created and sold his own product then that should not violate his visa constraints in any way. In any case, I've never heard of anyone having their income confiscated even if they were a candidate for deportation (though not a lawyer I follow immigration law very closely, it's a pet issue of mine).
    - nborwankar 14y ago
      There is a law against participating in a business. The only way you are allowed to earn an income is if it is an approved on-campus job.
      - anigbrowl 14y ago
        That's only true for a student in their first academic year, but since we don't really know the OP's specific situation I don't want to get into an argument about details. http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=e34c83453d4a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=e34c83453d4a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b...
- nandemo 14y ago
  What part is mind-numbingly awful? It's pretty standard for countries to give out student visas with the proviso that the student cannot accept employment, or can only work up to (say) 15~20 hours a week after getting a special permit. As far as visa regulations in developed countries go, this one sounds fairly reasonable to me. > I suspect that a good lawyer will be able to recover most of it for him, especially since his presence in the US was not material to the earning of that income. I'd be very surprised if this argument were accepted, given that presumably a lot of OP's income came from US sources (if OP was temporarily in the US, AND was being paid from non-US sources, AND the total sum was not as high as 200 grand, then arguably the case would be in a gray area [1]). Otherwise, it would be too easy to enter the US on a tourist visa and work from home, coding or teaching $foo via Skype, but good luck explaining that to the immigration authorities on entry. However, it's not clear whether OP was actually in the US when they were selling the licenses. [1] http://www.nationofimmigrators.com/employment-based-immigration/immigration-lawyers-arguing-can-i-work-from-home-for-a-foreign-employer/ http://www.nationofimmigrators.com/employment-based-immigrat...
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
winter_blue 14y ago
I was an F-1 student too, and here's my suggestion: This coming Summer, apply for pre-completion OPT. You are allowed to start a company (register a corporation), and work for it under OPT status. I have inquired about this on HN before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1523021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1523021 I also verified with the DSOs (Designated School Officials) at my university, who are authorized to give legal advice on this matter, and they said that it was indeed possible to be self-employed / do a startup while on OPT. What you should do is: 1. Apply for pre-completion OPT right away. Once you get your EAD (it'll have a start date on it), register for a C-Corporation after the start date. (Unfortunately, non-citizens cannot start S-Corps, which are actually more suited to startups). 2. Then get a bank account on the company's name; link that account to your PayPal account, and cash the money to the company's bank account. You can then pay yourself a lump-some "salary" or cash it out via stock dividends. 3. Since your pre-completion OPT is authorized only for the summer, you'll have to stop "working for your company" at the end of the OPT period. So that this doesn't bite you again, in the meanwhile you should find a different solution to charging customers such as an international PayPal account or some other payment solution that is not based in the US. 4. Once you graduate, you'll be able to work for you company for atleast 12 months; and if you have a STEM degree (Comp Sci counts as one), you can work for it for an additional 17 months (adding up to a total of 29 months). After that there really aren't any other visas for startups / being self-employed, as the H1B requires that you own less than 50% of the company employing you (the real issue is that "you are not in control of your employment" and that you're fireable -- so even substantial ownership under 50% might be problematic -- but IANAL and I don't know about this. It might indeed be possible to do a startup on an H1B with 3 co-founders. Check with a lawyer.) 5. After the 29 months of post-completion OPT, if you are not particularly attached to the United States, there are many countries that welcome startups and self-employed freelancers and issue visas for such people. One such place is Dubai, a modern metropolitan city with people from various backgrounds. The DTMFZA (Dubai Technology and Media Free Zone Authority) issues Freelance permits (for $3k/year) that let you be self-employed in the country. One of the great things about Dubai (and the UAE in general) are the zero taxes. To top it all, Dubai happens to be a really great city. Other options, perhaps include Singapore and other cities/countries, but I don't know about the immigration/visa deal for freelancers in those countries. Good luck! If you have any further questions, feel free to reply to this thread -- I'll be monitoring it.

by sp_ 14y ago

blasten 14y ago

In this world, one must be born rich...

djt 14y ago
It makes it easier, but it could also be said that you should have checked the Terms and Services contract with Paypal.
- blasten 14y ago
  I started my commercial project in Venezuela, but using a U.S. account.

javajosh 14y ago

Wow, that's just...mind-numbingly awful. If that's true, the Emmanuel just forfeits all that money? I suspect that a good lawyer will be able to recover most of it for him, especially since his presence in the US was not material to the earning of that income.

packetslave 14y ago
IANAL (which is why the OP should definitely talk to one). If the work that generated the income was done while he was physically in the US, then the immigration folks will definitely have an opinion on if it was legal under his visa terms. This may or may not have an impact on any potential legal remedies that are available wrt Paypal.
- Lewisham 14y ago
  Yeah, as someone who has held an F1 in the past, the US authorities take a very dim view of getting income while you are here without authorization. I think actually committing misdemeanor crime is of less consequence to your legal status than taking money. We were warned about it very specifically. I heard of someone who was deported because he was painting fences for some disposable income. My guess is that the OP actually needs an immigration lawyer, not a civil claims lawyer (or whatever they are called). It's a sticky situation, and likely depends on whether the money was being posted to a PayPal account with a US or Venezuelan address/bank account, and whether he actually performed any work on turn.js while in the US. My guess is that if PayPal are asking for the SSN, he tied it to the USA, which is going to be a problem.
- anigbrowl 14y ago
  IANAL either, but there's no law against making income, there's a alw against accepting employment. If OP can show he created and sold his own product then that should not violate his visa constraints in any way. In any case, I've never heard of anyone having their income confiscated even if they were a candidate for deportation (though not a lawyer I follow immigration law very closely, it's a pet issue of mine).
  - nborwankar 14y ago
    There is a law against participating in a business. The only way you are allowed to earn an income is if it is an approved on-campus job.
    - anigbrowl 14y ago
      That's only true for a student in their first academic year, but since we don't really know the OP's specific situation I don't want to get into an argument about details. http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=e34c83453d4a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=e34c83453d4a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b...
nandemo 14y ago
What part is mind-numbingly awful? It's pretty standard for countries to give out student visas with the proviso that the student cannot accept employment, or can only work up to (say) 15~20 hours a week after getting a special permit. As far as visa regulations in developed countries go, this one sounds fairly reasonable to me. > I suspect that a good lawyer will be able to recover most of it for him, especially since his presence in the US was not material to the earning of that income. I'd be very surprised if this argument were accepted, given that presumably a lot of OP's income came from US sources (if OP was temporarily in the US, AND was being paid from non-US sources, AND the total sum was not as high as 200 grand, then arguably the case would be in a gray area [1]). Otherwise, it would be too easy to enter the US on a tourist visa and work from home, coding or teaching $foo via Skype, but good luck explaining that to the immigration authorities on entry. However, it's not clear whether OP was actually in the US when they were selling the licenses. [1] http://www.nationofimmigrators.com/employment-based-immigration/immigration-lawyers-arguing-can-i-work-from-home-for-a-foreign-employer/ http://www.nationofimmigrators.com/employment-based-immigrat...
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

winter_blue 14y ago

I was an F-1 student too, and here's my suggestion: This coming Summer, apply for pre-completion OPT. You are allowed to start a company (register a corporation), and work for it under OPT status. I have inquired about this on HN before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1523021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1523021 I also verified with the DSOs (Designated School Officials) at my university, who are authorized to give legal advice on this matter, and they said that it was indeed possible to be self-employed / do a startup while on OPT. What you should do is: 1. Apply for pre-completion OPT right away. Once you get your EAD (it'll have a start date on it), register for a C-Corporation after the start date. (Unfortunately, non-citizens cannot start S-Corps, which are actually more suited to startups). 2. Then get a bank account on the company's name; link that account to your PayPal account, and cash the money to the company's bank account. You can then pay yourself a lump-some "salary" or cash it out via stock dividends. 3. Since your pre-completion OPT is authorized only for the summer, you'll have to stop "working for your company" at the end of the OPT period. So that this doesn't bite you again, in the meanwhile you should find a different solution to charging customers such as an international PayPal account or some other payment solution that is not based in the US. 4. Once you graduate, you'll be able to work for you company for atleast 12 months; and if you have a STEM degree (Comp Sci counts as one), you can work for it for an additional 17 months (adding up to a total of 29 months). After that there really aren't any other visas for startups / being self-employed, as the H1B requires that you own less than 50% of the company employing you (the real issue is that "you are not in control of your employment" and that you're fireable -- so even substantial ownership under 50% might be problematic -- but IANAL and I don't know about this. It might indeed be possible to do a startup on an H1B with 3 co-founders. Check with a lawyer.) 5. After the 29 months of post-completion OPT, if you are not particularly attached to the United States, there are many countries that welcome startups and self-employed freelancers and issue visas for such people. One such place is Dubai, a modern metropolitan city with people from various backgrounds. The DTMFZA (Dubai Technology and Media Free Zone Authority) issues Freelance permits (for $3k/year) that let you be self-employed in the country. One of the great things about Dubai (and the UAE in general) are the zero taxes. To top it all, Dubai happens to be a really great city. Other options, perhaps include Singapore and other cities/countries, but I don't know about the immigration/visa deal for freelancers in those countries. Good luck! If you have any further questions, feel free to reply to this thread -- I'll be monitoring it.